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Immobiliser that applies the bike's brakes?


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Hi. I'm about to buy a new bike, Yamaha MT-07, and I'm worried about it being stolen, I live in London. I've been watching videos of motorbike theft and it mostly seems to follow the same pattern:


1. Remove physical lock (disc lock or chain, often with a hand held angle grinder)

2. Break the steering lock (far too easy)

3. Push the bike away


Often step 3 will be done with the aid of another bike. The rider on the second bike puts his foot on the first and pushes it along.


Does anyone know of an immobiliser that applies the brakes on a bike when it is activated?


I was thinking that if a bike has ABS then it already has a facility to apply the brakes, it just needs some kind of remote activation when it's parked up? If this existed, thieves would get to step 3 and get stuck. They would either have to physically lift and carry the bike or cut the brake lines, making it impossible to ride away away under the power of another bike.


I've searched for anything like this but found nothing. Do you know if this exists? Can you see any reason why this wouldn't work?

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There's a lock thingy that clamps the front brake lever on......but the scum just cut the brake lines to get round it......so there's nothing really that will work with the brakes that isn't easily defeated unfortunately. ...... :(

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You know what... that's actually a pretty good idea. :-)


It wouldn't take much to do either - a secondary master cylinder piggybacked on the rear brake line with a spring to depress it and a latch to hold it open when riding.


I guess issues would be if the latch gave while riding (could be exciting) and that a crim would just chop the brake line to disable it.


Might be better if you could rig something to hold the bike in gear...

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Remove the gear a clutch levers and take them with you.


Edit: I knew we had spoken about ABS locking before

https://www.themotorbikeforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=62909&p=981504&hilit=Abs+lock#p981504

 

So apparently ABS doesn't work once the ignition has been switched off. But there must be a work around. I have had a go on a BMW Evolution C. This applies a brake to the rear wheel when the side stand is down, regardless of having the ignition switched off, and it is impossible to move.


Ultimately a thief could always cut the brake line but it would make the bike unrideable. I would much rather they tried, crashed and wrecked the bike than get away with it intact.


If this doesn't exist I'm going to set about creating it. Watch this space, I'll be back with a prototype, in about 5 to 10 years.

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Personally I'd think that something that locks the transmission would be less easy to override....... :wink: A device that puts a pin into the teeth on the front sprocket?


BTW......I want royalties if you develop this idea!...... :lol: :lol:

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In Saabs the ignition key was on the transmission tunnel by the gear lever, which had to be in reverse to remove the key. I know we dont have a reverse gear, but it was a more effective way of locking the car. How come thieves now have to steal the keys to a modern car or they'll never start it, but bike manufacturers have done next to nothing to deter thieves. Steering locks are useless, need massively beefing up. Local councils could help by having a lot more safe anchor points for us to fix chains to.

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How come thieves now have to steal the keys to a modern car or they'll never start it, but bike manufacturers have done next to nothing to deter thieves. Steering locks are useless, need massively beefing up. Local councils could help by having a lot more safe anchor points for us to fix chains to.

 

Because stolen bikes are normally replaced with another bike, so bike theft generates more sales!

Councils don't care enough to spend money on anchor points.

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The problem with these new forms of security.. for cars and bikes is that it puts the owners/riders in greater personal jeopardy. the value of new bikes isn't going down any time soon so they will always be targeted and if a bike becomes impossible to use without a 'key' of some description.. the thieves are going to want that 'key'... they they will find ways to get it... whether thats the rider being attacked when out and about or while parking up. Or... followed home and possibly attacked in their own home.


does anyone think a determined thief with his eye on a bike worth over £10,000 is going to be put off by a front door? they can be through that and in your house in seconds... the household terrorised until the 'key' is handed over and the bike taken away. Hospital? loved ones traumatised? does anyone think a professional thief looking at a 'reward' of £1,000s will care about that?


we are already seeing increasing reports of bikers being attacked in broad daylight... this will only increase. the holy grail for any bike thief is the bike and its 'key'.

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The problem with these new forms of security.. for cars and bikes is that it puts the owners/riders in greater personal jeopardy. the value of new bikes isn't going down any time soon so they will always be targeted and if a bike becomes impossible to use without a 'key' of some description.. the thieves are going to want that 'key'... they they will find ways to get it... whether thats the rider being attacked when out and about or while parking up. Or... followed home and possibly attacked in their own home.


does anyone think a determined thief with his eye on a bike worth over £10,000 is going to be put off by a front door? they can be through that and in your house in seconds... the household terrorised until the 'key' is handed over and the bike taken away. Hospital? loved ones traumatised? does anyone think a professional thief looking at a 'reward' of £1,000s will care about that?


we are already seeing increasing reports of bikers being attacked in broad daylight... this will only increase. the holy grail for any bike thief is the bike and its 'key'.

WOW ,now I'm scared ,I think I'll build a panic room and stay in that for the rest of my life...Not

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WOW ,now I'm scared ,I think I'll build a panic room and stay in that for the rest of my life...Not

 


You might have a different view of these types of things if you have been attacked...


I was attacked.. in 1997. outside my own front door... because i dared to challenge some kids trying to nick a car. I was stabbed in the chest... and in the back for my efforts and suffered a concussion with severe memory dysfunction that lasted over year after being hit over the head with a crowbar. I was forced to relocate before the court case began as the police could not guarantee my safety. My life completely altered.


Salford.. a lovely place. NOT.


If a thief wants either of my bikes.. they are welcome to take them. but they have to find them first... actually know where they are.


I remain very dubious about some of these new security measures and the answers the criminals will have for them.

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Pop on YouTube and visit 'imdeadsilence' look at his video and he installed a lock that bolts to the front caliper and a pin is inserted that goes through the holes in the disc, essentially a disc lock but one that doesn't need removing it's pretty good, not cheap though


Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


 

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ABS doesnt apply the brakes, it releases the brake line pressure as needed when you apply them, so the capability isn't already built in. However, there's no reason why you couldn't use a similar system to add pressure to the brake lines as opposed to releasing it.

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ABS doesnt apply the brakes, it releases the brake line pressure as needed when you apply them, so the capability isn't already built in. However, there's no reason why you couldn't use a similar system to add pressure to the brake lines as opposed to releasing it.

 

But it also needs to reapply the brake after releasing it. That's why there is a big pump in the abs controler. Otherwise if it was just releasing pressure in an emergency situation your​ brake lever would pull back to the handle as the pressure was removed many times per second.

Brakes are also integrated with stability control systems.. not sure if that's the case in bikes yet, but certainly in cars the stability control system will use the abs system to apply individual brakes.


Screenshots from my BMW diagnostics software..IMG_20170316_210620.thumb.jpg.3fec9cc9a27f5471c5e40b07c3881f66.jpgIMG_20170316_210114.thumb.jpg.5c0b2300d6082126c3f0266162599bc5.jpg

 

I don't think it would take many lines of code for BMW software team to have the pump spin up, apply pressure and close the valves to keep the pressure in the callipers..

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Applied brakes can easily be "fixed" cut the brake hoses. or open a bleed screw. If they can whiz off chains and disc locks deactivating brakes should not be to hard...


Now if you could deactivate your own brakes that might be more effective, slowly darwinism might get to work..

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Basic way could be

If you still have non braided lines

Park up

Switch off

Apply front brake a few times then keeping the pressure on

Use


http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4l/p/-/-/-/-/?SEAVS030&0&t5_392&gclid=CjwKEAjw9_jJBRCXycSarr3csWcSJABthk07re90i6w4-2TpgPm7fhVCn8VduSdI2LTGYeqM0mX17xoCHjHw_wcB


In a strategic place

Release brake lever

In theory and practice this will keep the pressure built up in the calipers to not allow the pistons to return

Remember to remove before moving off

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ABS doesnt apply the brakes, it releases the brake line pressure as needed when you apply them, so the capability isn't already built in. However, there's no reason why you couldn't use a similar system to add pressure to the brake lines as opposed to releasing it.

 

But it also needs to reapply the brake after releasing it. That's why there is a big pump in the abs controler.


I don't think it would take many lines of code for BMW software team to have the pump spin up, apply pressure and close the valves to keep the pressure in the callipers..

Image

 

I'm aware of that, but it's doesn't apply the brakes and hold them there for potentially 6 months at a time over winter, it reapplies the brakes momentarily, restoring the pressure in the line, there's a big difference. Current ABS sensors used in the majority of bikes simply aren't designed for this type of use and would need a physical redesign. The larger BMW's may be able to do it, many of them have servo'd brakes like a car, but it would still need an engineer to look at it and do some testing as it wasn't in the original design brief.

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some interesting ideas on here: there seems to be 2 types on non key thefts

scenario 1) moped gang wheeling away

scenario 2) lift and throw into a van


scenario 1) steering locks get broken, locks get removed (battery angle grinder), bike is pushed away (1 c**t on the bike, 1 c**t on the moped with his foot on stolen bike to push it away)

scenario 2) assuming lock is attached to something immovable they cut through lock, pick up bike and throw bike in van


we have trackers, they are pretty effective, and big arse locks which are difficult to carry about (judging by the videos this only slows them down anyway).


scenario 1)

the idea of the removable clutch lever was a good one, having changed a clutch lever in less than 5 minutes a quick release device similar to a bicycle wheel would work, providing you left it in gear - could be easy to get round if gang had a quick release clutch lever of course you would hope they wouldn't carry or be able to carry every lever known to man so it would make it more difficult..


locking the brakes is another option but have others have said brake lines can be cut and these are likely to get stripped down so they aren't bothered about causing a bit of damage.


use the battery to electrically charge the bike / turn the grips into cattle prods so you fry the bast*rds when they try to take it - NB. must remember to switch it off before climbing on yourself..


2) buy something the bast*rds can't lift


unfortunately the only options available are make yours look less desirable than the bikes near by in the hope they try to steal those instead

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