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Let us feel the pinch while some have a ball


nman1
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Unbelievable, were getting cuts (some warented, some not) and some are getting millions. Don`t misunderstand me.....if a wrong has been committed then some form of accepting this and admitting it is in order but to pay someone finacial gain to the sum of millions is bang out of order while others suffer through no fault of their own.


Not much smoke without some fire.


Go back 30-40 years and all this would have been dealt with in house and forgot about after a few years.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11762636

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How much is your freedom worth though mate? I know full well if I was plucked off the street for whatever reason I was not guilty of, sent around the world to face torture, to not even be prosecuted and then merely released as though nothing had happened you can bet your bottom dollar I would be kicking off and trying to get some compensation for the loss of seven years away from family and friends and all the stuff listed above. It would be a hell of a lot more than a million squid too.

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Yep, there is that PD, but funny how, out of 61 million people in this country. a few just happen to get "plucked off the street" out of all those (despite the fact we have a reasonable intelligence service) for doing feck all. Like I say pal, no smoke without fire. I`ve lived here 46 years and my freedom is worth as much as I want it to be, therefore I steer clear of doing wrong. To date I`ts worked as I haven`t seen the inside of a prison cell.

Again, like I said, if a wrong has been done then fair enough, some form of apology (and yes, in the form of a pay out) must be made, but not to the tune of millions.

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I understand however I just find there are far too many people jumping into extreme thoughts about this sort of thing. Look at the news today about the early learning centre removing the pig from the farm toy box becuase 'It may offend muslims' when in fact it's probably just a save cash and allowing the company to market the product easier and cheaper making bigger profits for the company but obviously the media jump on the 'Brits changing because of the ethnics' bandwagon.


There's been lots of miscarriages of justice over the years and there's been uproar that the person has been paid cash for their time locked up yet have had their board and lodgings subtracted from the payout.


I also find that the more we, the Brits, react to stuff like the burning of poppy's etc they, the very small minority of dickheads, win. And in my humble opinion, once we stop reacting to their obvious taunts they'll get bored and soon stop.

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Back at the height of the Northern Ireland troubles people were lifted

of the streets and interned without trial in the Maze prison or what was

back then like a prisoner of war camp. People from both sides of the

political divide in NI were arrested for crimes and most from both sides

would claim to have been beaten during interogation.

Does this mean that all those people can now claim compebsation?

I totally agree that human rights are there to protect people but sometimes

you have to overstep the mark to protect to public at large and stop tip toeing

around the people that preach hate against the UK but are happy to live here

and claim of the state. If they dont like it they should bugger off.

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I also find that the more we, the Brits, react to stuff like the burning of poppy's etc they, the very small minority of dickheads, win. And in my humble opinion, once we stop reacting to their obvious taunts they'll get bored and soon stop.

 

That's exactly what I said when I heard about the poppy burning incident, don't give them the publicity, because that's exactly what it was, a publicity stunt.


As for these nutters, well they were plucked from the streets of Afghanistan and Pakistan, what these British citizens were doing over in such hostile countries is questionable. There's smoke alright, but they haven't found the fire after seven years? Hmmm.

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I also find that the more we, the Brits, react to stuff like the burning of poppy's etc they, the very small minority of dickheads, win. And in my humble opinion, once we stop reacting to their obvious taunts they'll get bored and soon stop.

 

That's exactly what I said when I heard about the poppy burning incident, don't give them the publicity, because that's exactly what it was, a publicity stunt.


As for these nutters, well they were plucked from the streets of Afghanistan and Pakistan, what these British citizens were doing over in such hostile countries is questionable. That's the smoke alright, but they haven't found the fire after seven years.

 

Oh so true.


And yes what were they doing in Afganistan/Pakistan, sight seeing in training camps. I THINK NOT.

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I also find that the more we, the Brits, react to stuff like the burning of poppy's etc they, the very small minority of dickheads, win. And in my humble opinion, once we stop reacting to their obvious taunts they'll get bored and soon stop.

 

That's exactly what I said when I heard about the poppy burning incident, don't give them the publicity, because that's exactly what it was, a publicity stunt.


As for these nutters, well they were plucked from the streets of Afghanistan and Pakistan, what these British citizens were doing over in such hostile countries is questionable. That's the smoke alright, but they haven't found the fire after seven years.

 

Oh so true.


And yes what were they doing in Afganistan/Pakistan, sight seeing in training camps. I THINK NOT.

 

I have a friend who lives down the road who's family are from pakistan and he's born here yet he, and his family, travel to pakistan at least once a year. There's no reason why they shouldn't go as the country itself isn't a terrorist training ground only parts within the country are.


I know people on here and other forums I frequent think I'm some Political Correct idiot and isn't patriotic but that's because I'm not understood. I'm not sticking up for terrorism etc but I can see the media hype twisting every single story into some anti muslim propoganda and it pains me to see people vocally supporting the crap they print. Why is it that if there's a motorbike story we can look at it and read between the lines and see the lies. I hear you all defend bikers that are in the news for one reason or another and quite rightly so. Why can't we take this measured and logical way of seeing bikers and use it with all the other reports the papers print? I'm all for f***ing the idiots off to their country of origin etc I just don't appreaciate the way the media report about cases and making all the immigrants, muslims, bikers, dog owners or whoever the particular story look bad. The media have a huge amount of influence over the population and it's usually influencing them to hate groups of people.

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Back at the height of the Northern Ireland troubles people were lifted

of the streets and interned without trial in the Maze prison or what was

back then like a prisoner of war camp. People from both sides of the

political divide in NI were arrested for crimes and most from both sides

would claim to have been beaten during interogation.

Does this mean that all those people can now claim compebsation?

I totally agree that human rights are there to protect people but sometimes

you have to overstep the mark to protect to public at large and stop tip toeing

around the people that preach hate against the UK but are happy to live here

and claim of the state. If they dont like it they should bugger off.

 

I can't really comment on the northern ireland troubles as I was too young to really understand or care if I'm honest. The world we live in now is a lot different though and the compensation culture is rife. Another thing I want to see changed. Sick of people claiming for their own stupidity etc. Accidents happen, but the more we turn into the compensation country of europe the more people will have a go at trying to get compo for anything and everything.


I agree about overstepping the mark, but if that's the case then f**k him back off to pakistan instead of returning him here to allow him to go for compo. The same for all the other hate preachers, send them packing and if their families don't like it send them too I don't care. All I care about is that if you're innocent you have the right to claim for compo.

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Although I personally don't see how we can invade a country because we don't like the way the do things and then have the cheek to class any captives as "enemy combatants" instead of "prisoner's of war" in order to avoid any obligations laid out by the Geneva Convention. If they're PoWs then treat treat them as such. If they're not PoWs then they're criminals. As far as I'm aware suspected criminals have rights too. Except when you whisk them away to foreign soil first!


If we behaved like a civilized country then there wouldn't be all these people with the moral highground to demand compensation from us. I think the smoke and fire works both ways.


I know people will disagree. I just think that if the people in charge of these affairs took the time to ensure that they were playing by the rules in the first place then it wouldn't be costing us compensation payouts.


I believe that the threat to British citizens was negligable before the "war on terror" and so I don't think issues of safety are an excuse for "bending" the rules.

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I also find that the more we, the Brits, react to stuff like the burning of poppy's etc they, the very small minority of dickheads, win. And in my humble opinion, once we stop reacting to their obvious taunts they'll get bored and soon stop.

 

That's exactly what I said when I heard about the poppy burning incident, don't give them the publicity, because that's exactly what it was, a publicity stunt.


.

 

Agree with that too!!

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Funny how we want freedom of speech yet criticize people for acting upon it :wink:

Freedom of speech is everyones right but not when you are doing it to

cause trouble in a country that has welcomed you or your ancestors.

The thing that really gets me is that if these people hate the UK so much

why not head back to Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Somalia or one of those lovely

places they come from that offers such freedom and quality of life.

These people constantly complain about being discriminated against but their

constant bitching is to try and alienate ethnic groups.

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Funny how we want freedom of speech yet criticize people for acting upon it :wink:

Freedom of speech is everyones right but not when you are doing it to

cause trouble in a country that has welcomed you or your ancestors.

The thing that really gets me is that if these people hate the UK so much

why not head back to Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Somalia or one of those lovely

places they come from that offers such freedom and quality of life.

These people constantly complain about being discriminated against but their

constant bitching is to try and alienate ethnic groups.

 

I think it is affected alot by perspective. If i were of middle eastern descent, or found myself closely attached to the region for whatever reason, then i'm pretty sure i'd have found the Rememberance Sunday parades and services sickeningly and distastefully sanctimonious, imperialistic, propaganda.


One small change of perspective due to a persons background or faith in a government's reasons for being in Afghanistan can hugely alter their perception of what's hapening, the reasoning behind a war, the people involved in such a war and what is an appropriate response.


I don't believe that the war has anything to do with Osama bin-laden, women's rights, human rights, opium or even terrorism. I do believe, however, that for the most part that all of the men and women fighting the war are there in good faith and as such should be fully honoured, supported, and unfortunately, sometimes, remembered. But it's easy for me to think this way.


I don't think that burning poppies, or whatever, is in any way appropriate or helpful. But I do think that nothing will ever improve by taking the stance that anyone with a foreign accent should go home if they don't like what's happening.


Britain and her allies have been doing terrible things for a very long time. Even assuming less so that the United States (Bay of pigs, Sep 11 1973, Gulf of Tonkin, countless rigged foreign elections and assassinations/fabrications, etc, etc ) our place as America's lapdog guarentees that we're tarred with the same brush. It's no wonder that people without an ingrained respect and patriotism for this country are distrustful, suspicious, and vengful.


Not saying that they can do whatever they want. Just that it's not helpful to write off any foreigner who strongly opposes policy, appropriately or not, as a lunatic, scum-bag or monster. People, for the most part, are rational to a certain extent. You just have to understand their perspective.


I see it like a pendulum. The harder you push it away from you the more forcefully it returns next swing. Small, measured, adjustments will keep it as close to equilibrium as for as long as possible. There's a problem in the world which needs small and measured adjustments to right.

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Cheers Gary. I was beginning to worry about where it was going.

I personally was just pissed off that we can give people who have been "allegedly" tortured (which I PERSONALLY doubt very much) to extract information on possible acts of barbarism to people of whatever country, millions of pounds. I see young people in St. Ives, a small market town in Cambridgeshire, sleeping in doorways or benches through possibly no fault of there own. I was driven to buying a bag of essential groceries for one last year to help him out.


Given two people in front of me:


(A) Young lad/lass down on their luck sleeping in dirty clothes under a blanket in a doorway.


(B) POSSIBLE (and I repeat posssible) religeous fantatic of dubious birth background, cought in a military training camp in a country known to want harm on other humans, ALLEGEDLY tortured to find out information to stop said harm.


Now do you give ONE person a million or help hundreds get off the streets. In my slightly black and white world, I know my choice.


Now that was my gripe, please refrain from going into war topics etc.

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I'd rather see thousands on the streets than a few locked up without trial for seven or eight years of their lives. But I get where you're coming from Neil. Didn't mean to steer the thread off topic. Just wanted to qualify why I think it's not black and white. I'll also conceed that sometimes black and white works whereas shades of grey don't. Maybe i'm becoming more of an idealist in my old age :)

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Agree with the statement, no smoke without fire.


Stuff like this is simply irritating, and with the poppy burning incident I would ignore it. There are many of a belief there is supposed to be a religious war right about now. And so they are provoking it deliberately. Evil in the name of a god basically. Ironic when hes proclaimed to be about love and peace :roll: So dont even humour it.


With this case I wouldnt let it slide, present evidence to show what they were detained for. And certainly for the years they were locked up they should be compensated for but within reason. Not millions and millions. I would be happy with a house and a few hundred thou in the bank. Its all you aim for in life usually and unless you can prove otherwise then thats what you should get. I would be happy with that. Id certainly keep my gob shut from that point onwards so I didnt get plucked off the street again. You dont do anything and you wont have anything done to.

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AWWH! YEAH! Fantastic!!! Another thread that PhatDad has jumped in on defending racial minorities!


FAN-f**king-TASTIC!!!





Oh sorry, did my sarcasm hurt your feelings?

 

Hey, that's uncalled for! Everyone is entitled to voice their opinion and up to this point the topic was being discussed in a reasonable manner! If you read the comments carefully that is not the case!


If you'd like to address the issues raised in the thread then fair enough, but please don't make it personal!!

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The powers that be have not followed there own rules and regulations that were put in place to stop this sort of thing happening. Its wrong, but I agree that those blokes were out there for a reason, but unless they actually have proof that they were going to go through with something, how can anyone warrant a prison sentence or torture? These fellas are only the tip of the iceberg. What about the people in gulags in the Baltic states that have not been reported on, that we allowed to pass through our country and we were present during torture of them! Those poor fucks are going to disappear! What about all the poor kids who have been shot or bombed in the streets in Iraq? they have not done anything wrong either........................................

The reality is, these things need to happen to keep petrol at a decent price. It makes me sick, but im all for it and so are you every time you fill your tank up. The world is a very strange place and neither you or I can make sense of it through what we read in the papers. You just have to blindly trust that the people pushing the buttons (not the politicians you vote for but the back room boys at Whitehall who tell them what to say) are making the right choices. In the mean time enjoy your flat screen tellys, motorbikes and internet porn. Until the aliens arrive and convince us we are all on the same flipping side, its a scramble, and we are lucky enough to be one of the biggest boys in the playground. :( SCRAMBLE!!!!!

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