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Ireland Bailout


GARYJL
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What do you'se think about the UK borrowing £7 Billion

to lend to Ireland ontop of what they will already be

contributing threw the joint european fund ?

I feel we have to do it morally but the Irish government

need to sort things out and reduce the cost of living.

A guy I know from Dublin told me his wife gets 40k euro

part time as a civil servant and on a recent work trip to

Dublin we stayed in a hotel that charged about £6 a pint.

At the risk of sounding racist which by no means I am another

problem in the republic is that they have to many foreign

workers which reduces the amount of jobs for the natives.

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Were lending it them so they don't go bust and take our banks with them. It's just another bank bailout by the back door. My grandchildren will still be paying for this mess.


It's the biggest swindle the world has ever seen. The bankers are given free money and paying themselves bonuses still. An absolute f**king disgrace.


That's what I reckon anyways :)

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I'm still trying to understand how us borrowing more

money we can't afford to pay back can help get them

and us out of a problem caused by governments borrowing

money they can't afford to pay back! :scratch: :hammer:


The ordinary people( you me and our kids) will no doubt

once again get shafted while the fat cats live a life

of luxury!

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Greece, Iceland (not even part of the EU), now Ireland and probably Spain, Portugal and maybe Italy at some point too. As ever the ordinary people won't benefit, it's just purely to stop banks from collapsing under their own greed and mismanagement. A complete f**k up!

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We are ripping them off.


Imagine borrowing £1000 from Hsbc and the repayments are £10 per month. Now lend the £1000 to your mate and charge him £12 a month. Your mate has to accept as he needs the £1000 and even ocean finance wont touch him because his credit is so bad.


WINNER!

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We have no choice but to help out in situations like this because there is more debt in the world than there is money. In order for everything to not come crashing down around us the economy MUST continue to grow continuously (yes, i know perpetual growth is impossible). People MUST keep borrowing money, which creates new money, to pay off old debt.

It's the time lag between new money creation and debt repayment that keeps everything ticking along.


If whole countries fail to repay their debts, cease trading and their economies and those of their neighbours stop growing, the whole system falls to pieces because the.


Increasing debt is the only way the world, as we know it, can continue to function.

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Its not wrong. It makes complete sense.


Ireland buys £23 Billion of goods from the uk every year. If the banks colapse the business's will have any loans recalled, putting alot of them out of business, then they won't be buying uk goods.


So we lend them £7 Billion to help keep the economy alive, they spend £23 Billion on uk goods to help keep our economy going and people in jobs which pays taxes, which helps to pay off the debt.


If it was a country which we didn't trade with its a completly different matter.

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Thanks God there isnt a united Ireland or us in the North would be screwed.

Saying that Ireland buys a lot from the UK we're 100 miles up the road from

Dublin and cant sell to them as they seem to want to keep their money South

of the border even though we're a bit cheaper and they dont have to pay VAT.

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Whats really amusing is that none of these debts will ever get paid off...


If you look at who owes who what, it means everyone is in debt..


Why not reset to ZERO because the chances of any country in deep poo financially, getting themselves straight, are slim at best...


Whats wrong with letting it all go t*ts up and sorting it out after... If no-one has any money then we are all in the same boat...


Write off the debts of struggling nations and then let them sort themselves out using there own tax system and don't give them any hand outs at all... No EU money nothing..


If they can't sort themselves out then thats their problem...


Once they sort themselves out they then have to keep it all straight...

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Its all pretty complicated ive been told. But in a nut shell if the developing third world countries start investing in industry and producing goods they will then pay back the loans and it works down the chain so that we buy the new cheap goods using the money that they have paid back. It all works on the powerpoint presentations but in practice a lot of the money has been spent on essentials like Ak47s, ammo, 4x4s, food, swanky hotels golf courses and islands in the shape of a palm tree.. We have then spent the money that we were due to get back on these investments before we have the cash by taking loans out based on equity like holiday homes in Florida, shopping mauls in Belize and flats in Portugal which due to the realisation that the whole system is broken are now not worth the amount that the loans were taken out and secured with. This means some of the larger banks are now in negative equity, but none of them will admit it, so they all assume they all are, which means none of them will lend each other money without charging extortinate amounts of interest, so we cant borrow money unless we pay large amounts of interest. This has a knock on into the housing market as larger deposits are needed as security due to risk being higher and money being more expensive to borrow. It also means that nations who have a large amount of there countrys gross domestic product tied up in the banking system (most of the civilised western world) suddenly look a bit shakey and the value of currency for those nations goes down and as with the banks, the cost of lending goes up. All of the above can be shown in the following equation.


E =FA


Where E is the total worth of the global capitalist Economy. F is f**k and A is all of nothing or 0 to give it a figure.


If you really worry about this sort of thing like me. It helps to read my sig over and over. And as always there is a silver lining. Those nice chaps in China really are doing very well. I dont really like rice, but im going to have to get used to it me thinks.

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I watched a youtube video recently of an old gent in whitehall giving a speech. I'm not a conspiracy theorist by a long shot however what he was saying made some sense to me.


This is the bit I don't quite believe in but he claimed that organisations such as the CIA have caused this economy collapse and this is why.


A shortened version goes like this. The big boys invest money they do not have. They lose this invisible non existent money which causes the worlds stock markets to collapse and we go into financial meltdown. The governments of each country in crisis bail out the big boys with... REAL money. Big boys now have real money to fund whatever they wish.


It's like us going into a casino with Monopoly money, inundating the house with all this fake money, they realise, react by removing all of this fake money leaving everyone out of pocket but then paying us back in real cash. We win, everyone else loses.

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I watched a youtube video recently of an old gent in whitehall giving a speech. I'm not a conspiracy theorist by a long shot however what he was saying made some sense to me.


This is the bit I don't quite believe in but he claimed that organisations such as the CIA have caused this economy collapse and this is why.


A shortened version goes like this. The big boys invest money they do not have. They lose this invisible non existent money which causes the worlds stock markets to collapse and we go into financial meltdown. The governments of each country in crisis bail out the big boys with... REAL money. Big boys now have real money to fund whatever they wish.


It's like us going into a casino with Monopoly money, inundating the house with all this fake money, they realise, react by removing all of this fake money leaving everyone out of pocket but then paying us back in real cash. We win, everyone else loses.

 

Even if that's not true, the everyday monetary framework we're all used to is equally as scandalous. People just don't believe it because it's so outrageous. And as that means bankers rule the world, not Mr Obama or suchlike, the CIA interfering to fabricate a meltdown is actually not as incredible as it might seem at first. Although using words like 'CIA' does make it all seem less credible and conspiracy theory like.

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Are you talking about the fractional reserve system Aaron?


PD I wouldn't think there is any value to swapping "real" (i.e. backed by bonds or currency) money for "non-existent" (I assume meaning created from debt, or only fractionally backed by bonds/currency) as it's all just digital representations anyway so there is no difference. You don't buy cars or houses with cash, tis all just numbers in a database and doesn't matter how it's backed provided the banks keep shuffling the numbers around. Don't know much about it though so could be missing the point :lol:


I do love a good conspiracy theory, but not sure about that one

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Are you talking about the fractional reserve system Aaron?


PD I wouldn't think there is any value to swapping "real" (i.e. backed by bonds or currency) money for "non-existent" (I assume meaning created from debt, or only fractionally backed by bonds/currency) as it's all just digital representations anyway so there is no difference. You don't buy cars or houses with cash, tis all just numbers in a database and doesn't matter how it's backed provided the banks keep shuffling the numbers around. Don't know much about it though so could be missing the point :lol:


I do love a good conspiracy theory, but not sure about that one

 

No, what I mean is that all the bankers are passing all this 'electronic' representation of money which we've just discovered doesn't exist. i.e. the bank will lend you money for a mortgage that they don't really have as it's all invested in some american sub prime mortgage system that doesn't add up. This all goes tits up as soon as they realise, the banks have lent out more electronic fake money than they actually have and have screwed themselves up so the government bail out the banks with the tax payers real money by taking it from our wages. So now, because the banks were playing with non existent money they've been bailed out with real money.

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Are you talking about the fractional reserve system Aaron?


PD I wouldn't think there is any value to swapping "real" (i.e. backed by bonds or currency) money for "non-existent" (I assume meaning created from debt, or only fractionally backed by bonds/currency) as it's all just digital representations anyway so there is no difference. You don't buy cars or houses with cash, tis all just numbers in a database and doesn't matter how it's backed provided the banks keep shuffling the numbers around. Don't know much about it though so could be missing the point :lol:


I do love a good conspiracy theory, but not sure about that one

 

No, what I mean is that all the bankers are passing all this 'electronic' representation of money which we've just discovered doesn't exist. i.e. the bank will lend you money for a mortgage that they don't really have as it's all invested in some american sub prime mortgage system that doesn't add up. This all goes tits up as soon as they realise, the banks have lent out more electronic fake money than they actually have and have screwed themselves up so the government bail out the banks with the tax payers real money by taking it from our wages. So now, because the banks were playing with non existent money they've been bailed out with real money.

 


Well lending people money that doesn't exist has been the defacto standard for 300 years (regulated that way for 300 years i mean). We then have to pay the bank back the borrowed sum which didn't exist in the first place, plus interest which doesn't create new money, although it is mostly made up of invented money.


BUT, if you mean that banks have committed fraud (in the legal sense rather than the usual fraud we have legalized for 300 years) then perhaps. Its quite complicated for someone like me to imagine, but conceivable.


So in response to mattyb, yes. With no way to repay the capital but to borrow more invented money we are tragically and inexorably enslaved to debt. A few very powerful individuals are our enslavers and masters; and all because we freely grant them the authority.


We suck.

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