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ITV News - Student demonstrations


iWannaGoFast
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"many of the protesters in today's demonstrations were school-children".


Now I don't condone the rioting, (though it looks like fun) but seriously, words fail me. What the f**king NORA did ITV expect? The people the fees are going to affect, turned up to demonstrate. GENIUS.


Stupid people anger me.


:evil:

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Rioting isnt going to help anyones cause it will only make a mockery of the true student demo and turn law abiding people against their cause because they'll think all students are

troublemakers. Over the last 30 years there have been hundreds if not thousands of riots

over here and I have yet to see one that has made a difference to any cause including

rioting about 4 or 5 years ago 3 miles from where I live in which three people were shot.


I personally support students being subsidised but on a case by case basis might work better

I think that for some courses which are going to lead to extremely highly paid jobs the student

should be expected to pay slightly more. In northern ireland it is near impossible to get an nhs

dentist and most people have to go private yet the dentists are being subsidised threw their

studies in these cases should there be a clause that says you have to do nhs work for a set

period of time after qualification ?


Or should lawyers have to offer a certain amount of free legal aid instead of charging

hundreds of pounds an hour at the expense of the tax payer that subsidised their studies?


The entire education system needs to be looked at along with everything else, I know of a primary school that has 10 pupils.

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My personal opinion is if you opt to have further education then you should be prepared to pay for it. It isn't compulsory, no one is making them choose to take that path but if they do the least they can expect is take responsibility to pay for it. Admittedly in this day and age it is hard to get far without a qualification. But the returns of a good career and future should be worth the initial outlay. As the pro-verb goes, you've got to spend money to make money. I don't mean to offend anyone with this opinion, it is just my view on the situation.

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Rioting helps more than sitting back drinking another cup of tea and saying "oh my!"


Most people sit back and take it, I say fair enough to the people rioting and standing up to the what I'd consider dictatorship type government!


Doubt that it works anyway, if they want to introduce something then they are going to regardless.


Its up to the people what goes on in this country, not the government!

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My personal opinion is if you opt to have further education then you should be prepared to pay for it. It isn't compulsory, no one is making them choose to take that path but if they do the least they can expect is take responsibility to pay for it. Admittedly in this day and age it is hard to get far without a qualification. But the returns of a good career and future should be worth the initial outlay. As the pro-verb goes, you've got to spend money to make money. I don't mean to offend anyone with this opinion, it is just my view on the situation.

So where do you draw the line?


Should we have to agree to pay all our medical expenses if we get hurt out on our bikes? After all, it's a dangerous pastime and no one is making us do it.


Perhaps what pisses them off is that the government has decided to borrow billions to pay for the older generations mistakes. And they've decided instead of paying for it now, they're going to make the younger ones pay it off in the future. And they had absolutely no say in it what so ever.

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I find all this rioting very comforting and hopeful. We don't do enough of that in this country. As someone else said in another post here (i think) we just bitch about stuff and then go to the pub.


The only reasons riots don't work here is because they aren't taken far enough. They don't last long enough. And they are typically not agressive enough. Persistent disruption leads to civil unrest, and civil unrest is what leads to governments being overthrown. Assuming the public will is generally behind the cause enough to kick up enough of a stink in the first place then most will capitulate way before that that prospect becomes realistic. People in power like to stay in power. I doubt many of them really care one way or another about student fees or any other single thing in particular.


They got the right idea in many other countries. When the government forget that they are there to represent the people the people remind them.


I'm not, however, in favour of launching fire extinguisher's off the tops of buildings into crowds. Just to be clear :P


And it typically falls to the students because they have the least to lose, at least in their minds at the time. I feel guilty for posting things like this but then never actually joining in. Probably like most other people who have responsibilities they're reluctant to jeopardise.


Right... i'm off to the pub.

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Too true Aaron, well said. Not sure I`d be willing to get into any violent protest though.

Just think though, if we protested about everything wrong with this country at the moment we`d never be in flamin work, school, college or dosing on the settee. Given that said, I`m still a "my glass is half full" kinda bloke, most of the time. :D

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The BBC showed one student saying that the rioting is only bring done by a handful of people, who quite frankly probably just turned up to cause trouble. The actual main portion of the protest was, in the main, fairly relaxed & peaceful.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Now I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist however I find it quite interesting that the only air time the students protesting are getting are the violent protestors who, judging by a couple of posts on here and elsewhere, it seems to be turning the general public against the students. If I was a clever politician, an oxymoron I know, then wouldn't it be a good idea to organise a small group of 'fanatic anarchists' wearing the customary black hoodies to get some other students riled up and smash some windows. I noticed the last riot there seemed to be more photographers than police all surrounded a few violent students smashing up what would seem to be the exact same window (from different angles) and a foyer. So in other words, make some really shitty fundamental, financially crippling legislation in and then make those it affects look bad on tv so the general public say 'well f**k'em, if they can't behave they don't deserve'.


I've just completed a degree in an attempt to go into teaching, but I seem to be failing to do so due to their being very, very few places avaliable for someone like myself who need to be paid while doing the teacher training. I wasn't led to believe that was the case but now I'm 20k in debt which I've never been before, and it looks like I'll be joining the job market in a job I could have easily got 6 years ago without a degree.


They say that the average graduate earns an average of 100k more than an average non graduate over their lifetime. If the new fees of 9k are introduced then that means students will be leaving with about 50-60k worth of debt to pay out of that 100k extra. Hardly seems worth the effort, particularly those of us who wish to go into a trade that isn't one of those high paying jobs but we're forced to go there as the degree and post graduate qualifications are required.


The only people that will benefit from this are the rich, those that can afford the 9k a year and won't need to borrow cash to live while studying as the rest of us struggle and maybe don't go to Uni and therefore the old skool gentlemen's club continues to run the damn country.

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My main problem is the govt promised something which won them many thousands of votes and once in power do the opposite, that is fraud. Imagine if they promised to reduce income tax so you all voted for them, then once in they doubled it. How peaceful would the protests be then?


I'm in two minds with the specific issue of raising uni fees. It's good to have a more educated nation but at the same time it'd force people to take it a bit more seriously. There is a problem with people who treat uni as 3 years of dossing about and don't learn a thing, but this probably isn't the way to solve that.

 

Hardly seems worth the effort, particularly those of us who wish to go into a trade that isn't one of those high paying jobs but we're forced to go there as the degree and post graduate qualifications are required.
Yes I think that is probably my main issue against raising fees, it'd stop things like musicians and artists studying and imo people like that are important for a vibrant and varied society.

 

If I was a clever politician, an oxymoron I know, then wouldn't it be a good idea to organise a small group of 'fanatic anarchists' wearing the customary black hoodies to get some other students riled up and smash some windows.
Or park a police van in the middle of the area then pen the protesters in for 5 hours without food, drink or toilets. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see through that one.


And yea I agree with Aaron, the govt needs to be scared of the people not the other way around.

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Too true Aaron, well said. Not sure I`d be willing to get into any violent protest though.

Just think though, if we protested about everything wrong with this country at the moment we`d never be in flamin work, school, college or dosing on the settee. Given that said, I`m still a "my glass is half full" kinda bloke, most of the time. :D

 

Yeah, depends on what's considered "violent". The media sensationalise everything and make it out like people trying to go where the police don't want them to go is "violent".


If enough people turned out and said "No mr policeman... We'll not be cordoned of here. We'll march wherever we like", then there's nothing they can do to stop it and nothing gets more violent than a bit of push&shove. When a small core act like that the authorities can fight back and that's when it gets out of hand. IMO. I've never joined in on one.

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ok then, your all speculating, would you like to hear from someone who was there that day, someone who was less than 20 yrds from the riots?


I can say the whole march was going really well, no trouble, we were being heard, our message was getting across. Then the idiots, some were not even students, decided to cause over a million £ worth of damage, it was not on and not needed, we had backing from general public before that, people walking in the area to get to work or where ever were telling us protesters that they were on our side, that they agreed that we were being given a poor deal. But as has been said, the media are focusing on the damage and terror caused, and yes it did frighten the majority of the people in the near area cos you dont know what is going to happen and how far and fast it was going to spread. I know I wanted out the area.


As for what we were protesting about, we are against Clegg who promised and signed a document saying he would abolish fee's (which i know is idealistic and not actually possible) and is now going against what he said, also the extent to which they are allowing the uni's to put fee's up. Now I agree there are some stupid courses out there that if they were got rid of would mean more money to the uni, the gov is trying to let uni's run themselves, which is to improve efficiency, but the problem with this is, what uni is not going to charge as much as they can? I am on one of the 'proper' degrees, but its an expensive one so I know I would end up paying the highest of fee's.


Why should I? I have worked for around 15 years paying into a system that I have not taken out of, why would I not expect to be given some help. I am doing an engineering degree, the type of degree that the world needs people to do, same as phatdad, a teaching degree, one the country needs people to do. The country will benefit from us, so why shouldn't we expect the gov to help us? But I am looking to go into a job that is not really highly paid but is done for the love and for the worlds entertainment. I am already looking at 20k+ debt for this, I know this would happen but I took the jump. I certainly would have thought twice if I had to pay more.

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As people have said before, the rioters were a small number of people there, the rest wanted a peacful protest. But it's a lose lose situation. We do a peacful protest and the government won't do anything, they'll see us as pushovers and if we riot and fight for our cause we're deemed 'dangerous' or 'too imature'. This is just my opinion.


I for one really want to go to uni because the qualification would help me greatly and the experience is a once in a life time but if the fee's do go up I won't be going. In my view I'd be much better off getting two or three years work under my belt than going to uni and coming out 20k+ in debt.


I think it's rediculous how we can bail out Ireland and give 150 million to the EU (so I've heard) but we can't give those with less money or those who won't be going into high paid jobs a gift of higher education.


I for one do condone the protests, even the violence. I don't condone anyone getting hurt, that is out of order, but if we don't prove that we do mean what we say then they'll walk all over us. As I said it's a lose lose situation.


This is just my opinion of the matter.


Thanks for reading my rant haha

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I for one do condone the protests, even the violence. I don't condone anyone getting hurt, that is out of order, but if we don't prove that we do mean what we say then they'll walk all over us. As I said it's a lose lose situation.

 

I think that's pretty much spot-on. Contrary to popular opinion, money does not make the world go round. The threat of violence does. Fortunately in our everyday lives that threat is hidden underneath several layers of abstraction which makes for a thoroughly more pleasant lifestyle. But don't be fooled into thinking that sad faces, clever slogans and angry chants carry any weight in their own right. It's an implied threat of violence, direct or indirect, that will have any impact whatsoever.

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If I may veer slightly off the original top slightly, but maybe relavently still, does anyone understand the protests and riots, etc, in places like Ireland against the austerity packages? I can never get enough of a picture from the news about what they're actually protesting against. Presumably the people understand that they need to save money, so are they against very specific cuts? or cuts in general?


I can understand it to a certain extend in greece where alot of it is more about people venting their anger and frustration at their corrupt government having wasted all their money, rather than at the appropriateness (is that a word?) of the cuts.


I dunno if anyone here is from the republic of ireland? Are people more angry at their government rather than the cuts themselves?

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Oh noooo more doom and gloom. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... tests.html


A new era of violent protests the chief warns, so what about the poll tax riots all the way up to the last G8/20 or whatever it was called climate type riot. There hasn't been a drop in violent riots they're just trying to make the current ones seem as though they're new and therefore make the students look bad.


Hey, do you think students are the new targets for media demonisation? Will the Muslims and Islamic followers get an easy deal now they have a new villain?

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Rioting isn't going to help anyone's cause it will only make a mockery of the true student demo and turn law abiding people against their cause because they'll think all students are

troublemakers. Over the last 30 years there have been hundreds if not thousands of riots

over here and I have yet to see one that has made a difference to any cause including

rioting about 4 or 5 years ago 3 miles from where I live in which three people were shot.

 

Yeah, your lot make yesterdays riots look like a minor scuffle amongst mates, they wouldn't waste time colouring a riot van in, they'd either ram it through the cordon or light it up. I spent enough time at the nasty end when I was over there, the riots have achieved very little, it just breeds more animosity and pushes communities further apart, not to mention the clean up bill, which must run into hundreds of thousands. The rest of your countrymen (and most of the rest of the UK) just think that those involved are t**ts.


Granted, the situation is a little bit more complicated over there, no amount of rioting will change anything. Change, if it happens, will be brought about by negotiation.

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Granted, the situation is a little bit more complicated.


No No theyre mostly just t**ts :D :D

I think the troublemakers will use the whole student thing as an excuse to cause mayhem

and wont acheive anything. Someone said in an earlier reply that if we do nothing the

Government wont change their mind and we riot they wont change their mind so that sums it

up. Protest yes but anyone that supports people smashing windows setting things on fire

damaging police property and assaulting officers in my opinion is clearly a moron.

The students have to realise now that their demonstration has been hijacked and come

up with a better plan or they will loss public support.

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In the current economic climate of cutbacks and increased taxes its highly unlikely that the students opposition to the governments proposals is going to have support in any significant numbers that will influence government thinking on the issue regardless of what protests demonstrations or civil disobedience they cause.


The fact of the matter is that the country has a humungous deficit and need to reduce spending in the short term even if that spending may lead to benefits to the country in the long term. I think the students would have a much better chance of gaining sufficient public support to influence government proposals if they came up with a viable alternative that would see reductions in spending but would preserve at least some of the existing benefits.


I think they should campaign for funding to be preserved for courses which will directly support key businesses that have a shortage of skilled labour. Whilst allowing the cutbacks to be made in less critical areas that have an abundance of graduates. So this perhaps might mean that funding is maintained for engineering degrees but cuts are allowed to graphic design degrees.

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there is one problem i can see with cutting any fees and reducing the number of students the country has, all those discouraged students will be looking for work when they leave school at 16,( i mean, whats the point in doing A levels if you cant get into uni?)


one of the problems with this country is a lack of jobs, so thats going to be more people on benefits as far as i can see, so where is the gain by upping the fees and detering people?

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But there are more graduates than there are jobs for graduates. Why spend money the country doesn't have on education to produce graduates the country cannot use?

 


cos once we have graduated we have a choice, we can always bugger off and migrate. :)

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But there are more graduates than there are jobs for graduates. Why spend money the country doesn't have on education to produce graduates the country cannot use?

 

If you have an educated population the jobs will move here. Having said that I found my degree to be pretty pointless and a not really worth much, apart from being required to get a job. That's a VERY small sample of degree courses though.

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I think you will find the educated population will move to where the jobs are. The exception to this is where emloyers can save money by using a lower paid workforce. e.g. India for IT development. Clearly UK workers require higher salaries and so are not going to attract significant numbers of jobs for highly educated workers.

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