thoughts new laws on middle lane driving and mobile use

[cruz]

Having ridden from Birmingham to Bristol (M5) yesterday afternoon I can say that it has made a difference, most drivers were only using the two outer lanes for overtaking and returning to the inside lane after such moves.

When I say most, there were exceptions

If I get a car at some point in the future I want a BMW or a large Audi as it appears that the new offences now mean that they must not use the inner two lanes

Over a distance of about 15 miles one of each never moved from the outside lane at any point, during that distance I used all three. both were travelling in excess of 90mph. I'm not able to tell you how I know this, but trust me it is fact.

[techno]

Re: undertaking, there is a difference between undertaking and passing on the left.

AFAIK undertaking is a potential offence, particular if it has been deemed to be the cause of an acident:

 

Highway code 163: only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so

stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left

Undertaking is not illegal.

Numerous police have said so, even TC1474.

[Phooey]

I can understand many of your comments and agree with TC1474 on just about everything. However, I am also biased. I took the RoSPA test in my car and was fortunate to obtain a gold pass from the examiner, so road laws and safe considerate driving is important to me.

However, I can't help but feel that if EVERYONE followed the guidance of the Highway Code and obeyed the Road traffic Act, nothing in this thread would need discussing.

I realise that not all the 'rules of the road' are sensible and sometime do disagree with some of the more pathetic laws that we have to follow but the point is if we all chose which traffic laws we should obey and which we shouldn't (not a million miles away from where we are at the moment) then we would have a country of road anarchy.

Using any hand held device is potentially dangerous, but then so is loud music potentially dangerous or screaming kids in the back seat. The law is the law and it's not for us to pick and chose what we think is right or not. Middle lane hogging is the most frustrating and potentially dangerous activity on faster roads. Changing lanes is hazzardous enough without having to move from lane 1 to lane 3 on a busy motorway just to pass some inconsiderate ar***ole who chooses to sit in the middle!

On motorways and dual carriageways, which are essentially one way streets, passing on the left is not allowed. The highway code says that you CAN overtake on the left in a one way street so I don't see the problem on motorways but, the highways Code forbids it so we should follow it.

Bottom line is, if you don't want a £100 fine, waste a day on a 'road safety awareness day', or have you licence endorsed and higher insurance premiums then simply follow the law!

Ooops! Just my opinion guys!

[Matt Strange]

Undertaking is not illegal.

Numerous police have said so, even TC1474.

 

By undertake I presume you mean "overtaking on the left".

Well, the police are going against what it clearly states in the highway code rule 163.

There are no grey areas, if approaching a slower car in front of you in the middle lane of a motorway you must overtake on the right by using the outer lane at all times, because the car in front is not making a right turn. If you are positioned in the inside lane or middle lan and the outer lane(s) slow(s), you may pass on the inside as you are not changing lanes specifically to overtake on the left (the traffic queue rule applies).

[techno]

Quote from TC1474

"and in respect of undertaking? Well, I have covered this point on several occasions, it is not illegal."

Page 2 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=49203

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/place-london/plain/A685235

Second paragraph, undertaking is not illegal but can bring a charge of dangerous driving if it causes an accident I believe...needs confirmation.

[techno]

"I realise that not all the 'rules of the road' are sensible and sometime do disagree with some of the more pathetic laws that we have to follow but the point is if we all chose which traffic laws we should obey and which we shouldn't (not a million miles away from where we are at the moment) then we would have a country of road anarchy. "

Thing is we have no say, as you stated some are not sensible, so people choose to ignore because we don't agree for whatever reason, its mainly speed that people have a problem with and its something that won't go away, yet we have still some of the safest roads in the world.

[Phooey]

"I realise that not all the 'rules of the road' are sensible and sometime do disagree with some of the more pathetic laws that we have to follow but the point is if we all chose which traffic laws we should obey and which we shouldn't (not a million miles away from where we are at the moment) then we would have a country of road anarchy. "

Thing is we have no say, as you stated some are not sensible, so people choose to ignore because we don't agree for whatever reason, its mainly speed that people have a problem with and its something that won't go away, yet we have still some of the safest roads in the world.

 

I agree Techno but our job is to obey the law not break it just because we don't agree.

[techno]

So if they made a law saying max speed 10mph you'd obey the law?

Have you noticed in certain areas of the world sometimes the people stand up for what they think is right, in this country pure apathy.

Now there's nothing wrong with your POV but my POV is some laws/rules are just meant to be broken under certain circumstances and it would seem I'm not alone in thinking this.

Flip side is if we get caught we can't moan about it either.

Also just note I said "some"

PS I've seen the police break the same laws too.

[Ali in Austria]

So if they made a law saying max speed 10mph you'd obey the law?

Have you noticed in certain areas of the world sometimes the people stand up for what they think is right, in this country pure apathy.

Now there's nothing wrong with your POV but my POV is some laws/rules are just meant to be broken under certain circumstances and it would seem I'm not alone in thinking this.

Flip side is if we get caught we can't moan about it either.

Also just note I said "some"

PS I've seen the police break the same laws too.

 

Rising up against a brutal and corrupt regime isn't really in the same bracket as disagreeing with a speed limit is it?

While undertaking, passing on the left or whatever your preference for calling it, is not illegal in that there is no specific offence, it is a dangerous practice to advocate it. There are many occasions when the act will potentially constitute an offence such as even just lane changing (in certain circumstances), exceeding the speed limit, carrying out the manoeuvre in adverse weather when others have reacted to the conditions or even just to try an make a few metres in heavy traffic in certain circumstances. Argue all you like about the rights and wrongs, just don't do it in front of the Police. Every incident is judged on its merits and impossible to debate as an overall subject but just be mindful when doing it that it may result in you being pulled over and potentially having to argue your case in court.

Unfortunately there has to be rules and regulations because a significant percentage of motorists are "expert" drivers/riders solely in their own mind and there will be some who now undertake regardless because they read on a forum somewhere that they could. Fortunately a (perceived) Police presence on UK roads is now greatly diminished so there is a strong possibility you will get away with it.

There are also may traffic laws (not all) that the Police do not break because they have an exemption written in to the law. It will be National and Local Policy that decides who can use this exemption, usually dependant on their role and level of training, but any breach is an internal disciplinary matter and not a traffic offence.

[Phooey]

Many years ago when I was in the Royal Air Force, my commanding officer used to say: 'Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men'.

I still hold to that but as you said, if I turn into a street with a 20 mph speed limit which many of the roads in Bristol are now, and choose to go 30 mph, I would accept that I am breaking the law and would not argue against the fine.

There are ways of changing laws without ganging together and blatantly breaking them just because we disagree with them.

I too have seen the police breaking laws but that still doesn't make it right. We all break the law practically every time we get onto our bikes or in our cars. I am not in anyway suggesting that I don't ... I am saying if I chose to ignore the law then I should be prepared to pay the price.

Many years ago I got a speeding ticket for going 42 mph in a 30 mph area. Caught on camera on an empty, straight road as wide as an airport runway. I was seriously pissed off about it but ... as much as I thought it was stupid, I broke the law and had to take the points and fine!

[TC1474]

What people forget to realise that whether you accept the laws in this country or not (and I agree that there are some which are pretty silly) they were and are made to allow for the most common denominator or thickies or those who are too stupid to drive or ride sensibly or those who think that they are above the law.

You have to have a base or platform from which to work, and whilst to many sensible and safe motorists they may seem pedantic or stupid, not everyone is blessed with the same level of restraint or common sense.

Therefore on that basis, applying the common law rule, as sensible people, if we get caught, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

[techno]

I don't disagree with any of what you all just said, I don't undertake as a matter of course but the lane discipline is appauling in this country and on the bike having given someone the opportunity to move over if safe to do so I can be past and away. I had a run with a friend down the a1 recently the left lane was empty as people were scared to get stuck in it when approaching trucks so it was safer and easier for us to use, no police about anywhere to some that's the problem.

Speeding is always a bone of contention and has been discussed to death on this forum and one thing that we agree on is its down to the individual and if caught you take what's coming. Tho I have been were no limits exist and enjoyed it I understand the need for limits here and have no problem with them other than the level some are set are or changed too, but as said there are too many thickies that pass a test and never improve for one reason or another I would rather be past and away from these people asap.

Its hard to get across in words how people act and behave on the roads, I'm probably in the majority bracket of road users.

[Fozzie]

Undertaking is no illegal despite what is often thought...

If above speed limit then maybe.

If there was room for someone to easily move in for you, and then pull out for the truck later then undertaking is an option. As if you are faster moving and the guy ahead doesn't want to pull in despite there being more than enough space then he's in the wrong.

Up the A1 especially near London I will go 10 miles up the left hand lane at speed limit and undertake maybe 100 cars. All legally as my lane was making better progress.

Hopefully the fines help stop people hogging the outer lanes