Cornering speed / Technique

[Aerodyll]

The other day I was on some country roads and went wide on some of the corners. I did my research and have been practicing countersteer but have a few questions.

The first questions is : When all the videos on youtube say push down on the bars to steer does this mean push them so they are turning the opposite direction to the one you want to go? I have seen the videos where people are using as little as one finger and the bike is responding smooth and quickly. When on my scooter I feel like I have to put quite a bit of force down on the bars to get them to turn. I was thinking perhaps on a scoot due to the change in riding position it could be more like pushing forwards than down? I have played with this on the roads but not extensively, I figured I would ask before I start playing too much.

The second question is regarding cornering speed : On the country roads I was on the speed limit is 40. I was going 40 on the straights and slowing down to around 20 on the corners, some of which are pretty tight. Is slowing down to 20 normal for a scooter? I have heard that unless there are chevrons on the corner I should be able to go round them at the speed limit but with my current skill I definitely could not do that yet.

Cheers

Ben

[techno]

Search counter steering its mind numbing how much it gets mentioned enjoy the reading

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49391&hilit=counter+steering

As for corner speed whatever your comfatable/ able to do.

[Mr Fro]

Search counter steering its mind numbing how much it gets mentioned enjoy the reading

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49391&hilit=counter+steering

As for corner speed whatever your comfatable/ able to do.

 

What he said!

Definitely don't go faster than you feel comfortable with! If you're running wide then the chances are you're going too fast for yourself - I've not heard the chevron thing before and I can't say that I'd put too much faith in it!

Most people countersteer without realising it so don't get hung up on it. I can't think that it translates very well to a scootypuff because of the wheel size and the rake angle of the stearing head but you're right in saying that you'll want to push your inside hand away from you slightly.

You're probably better off looking through the corner at where you want to end up rather than buggering about with countersteering and all that stuff, it'll just reduce your concentration for the things you need to be doing. My other top tip is don't grip the bars too tightly, you need to let the front wheel do it's job so just be nice and relaxed on your scoot, familiarise yourself with a nice country road and gradually build your speed as your confidence grows.

Oh, and you might want to try experimenting in a carpark or something first as too much countersteer = appointment with Mr Pavement!

All the best,

Fro

[RantMachine]

Search counter steering its mind numbing how much it gets mentioned

 

Every single thread I've posted in since the rally, in fact

[Aerodyll]

Lol, thanks. I went wide on some corners and shat myself at how close I was to the oncoming traffic. Just figured I would ask. I will just have to practice when its quiet. Ta

[RantMachine]

Just keep at it and you'll get there! Not long after getting my bike I had a little accidental off-road experience taking a corner too wide on a country lane My right peck was a bit buggered in the process, had to get some washers welded to it to hold it together All in the past now, no trouble at all with cornering - and I didn't bother reading ANY of the counter steering arguments I just kept pushing myself and it came naturally with time.

Tl;dr - Keep at it, it'll come with time

[Tango]

As Mr Fro says......look where you want the bike to go.......and please, not at the traffic coming the other way.....

[Stu]

Lol, thanks. I went wide on some corners and shat myself at how close I was to the oncoming traffic. Just figured I would ask. I will just have to practice when its quiet. Ta

 

the chances are you looked at the traffic

you get what the call target fixation this is where you go where you are looking hence the look through the corner at where you want to go

[RantMachine]

Maybe practice on some nice open country roads (ie. no tall hedgerows) so you see opposing traffic coming? Might not throw you off as much if you know to expect them, just until you get more comfortable with cornering and are ready to take on the more unexpected opposing traffic.

[Bonniebird]

I think Stu is right about target fixation

Rather than c@unterst**ring, lets talk about the vanishing point instead......groan

Seriously though I find this far more useful for cornering. Focus on where the road appears to 'vanish' around the corner rather than road markings or even worse oncoming traffic and you will naturally steer correctly. It's also good for judging your speed into a corner and adjusting it if necessary.

Don't worry too much yet about the speed you are doing, concentrate on getting the right line into the corner and cornering smoothly - the aim is to be at the right speed when you enter the corner, speed steady as you corner and then accelerate out. Acceleration will naturally cause the bike to straighten up.

The chevrons or other warning signs are a good indicator that the bend is tight but are not a hard and fast rule about what speed the corner should be taken at

Sits back and waits to be contradicted

[rennie]

You could also try better road positioning,

Before a right hand bend you should be as far left as possible,

before a left hand bend as far to the right.

look where you want to go!

Stop thinking about it so much just do it

At the end of the day if you get round you've not F'ked up,

doesn't really matter how fast or how leant over.

All that comes with experience.

Most important of all! Enjoy it!

[mealexme]

On the country roads I was on the speed limit is 40. I was going 40 on the straights and slowing down to around 20 on the corners, some of which are pretty tight. Is slowing down to 20 normal for a scooter? I have heard that unless there are chevrons on the corner I should be able to go round them at the speed limit but with my current skill I definitely could not do that yet.

Cheers

Ben

This isnt something that can be answered really. It depends on the road, the bike and the rider. Do what ever you feel comfortable doing.

There is a 40mph road around here (that should be a 60, stupid council) that I do about 60/65 around the corners and a 60mph road that I can think of that I do about 20mph round one of the bends. Its really up to the way the road is and what you feel comfortable doing. Don't try and push yourself too much. Worse things can happen than taking a corner too slow, like taking it too fast and ending up in the grill of a lorry.

[BikerMooFromMars]

I've had massive issues with cornering since coming off after running wide last yr (I had a cruiser with bent handlebars that was a b*tch to control!). Firstly, as people say, if you run wide do not look anywhere rather than where you need to go...don't panic. Trust me, if you look towards a field in panic your bike will head towards it!! Try not to brake on the corner, slow to a speed you're comfortable with before you take it and accelerate out of it. Look at where you wanna go, not just 5 foot ahead of you. Wasn't til recently I went pillion on the back of a sports bike and the guy got me to (first stop crapping myself!) and look where he was looking (as he cornered at crazy speeds - waaah!)...I thought I'd been looking far enough ahead of me, but I hadn't and braked and went too slow before most of them. It's hard to work these things out on your own. Obviously evalute the road to check for dangers, but try to look right ahead of you where you want to go.

Also, you're on a scooter, people expect you to be slower so don't worry toooo much but defo try and work on it. It'll get easier.

Good luck with it, and welcome to the forum

Look to the vanishing point of the corner

[Ali in Austria]

As others have mentioned, "Target Fixation" and poor observation are the main obstacles to overcome before you start looking at better technique.

Get yourself on some form of advanced riding course or do one of the Police Observed days. You will pick up some invaluable tips and your observation will be raised. You will be surprised how much difference it makes.

[klingelton]

STEP AWAY FROM THE COUNTERSTEERING THREAD!

[BikerMooFromMars]

Get yourself on some form of advanced riding course or do one of the Police Observed days. You will pick up some invaluable tips and your observation will be raised. You will be surprised how much difference it makes.

That's the problem, on a CBT you can't book Bike Safe police course, I tried to book it a month after I passed but couldn't on a CBT. Only option I could find was paying for extra training, but with CamRider who i did CBT with they wanted £100 for a morning, so i didn't. I coulda really done with extra help.

When I got back on the bike after my off I booked with Euro Rider for £60 for half hour at a friends recommendation to help with nerves. It helped, but the guy told me not to worry about countersteering and didn't give much more help than "you just need to put the miles in".

Most help I had with my cornering issues is from following advice on this lovely forum, putting the miles in, and my pillion rides and ride alongs with TMBF

[polecat]

Get yourself on some form of advanced riding course or do one of the Police Observed days. You will pick up some invaluable tips and your observation will be raised. You will be surprised how much difference it makes.

That's the problem, on a CBT you can't book Bike Safe police course, I tried to book it a month after I passed but couldn't on a CBT. Only option I could find was paying for extra training, but with CamRider who i did CBT with they wanted £100 for a morning, so i didn't. I coulda really done with extra help.

When I got back on the bike after my off I booked with Euro Rider for £60 for half hour at a friends recommendation to help with nerves. It helped, but the guy told me not to worry about countersteering and didn't give much more help than "you just need to put the miles in".

Most help I had with my cornering issues is from following advice on this lovely forum, putting the miles in, and my pillion rides and ride alongs with TMBF

I never will understand why the Police don't run a course for learners

I even asked the MPC who runs one and he was not sure either !!

[BikerMooFromMars]

I booked with Euro Rider for £60 for half hour at a friends recommendation

I meant to say 3 hours. I was very tired this morning!

Yeah, doesn't make sense to Moo either!

[Grumpy Old Git]

Looking at the vanishing point last year in the lakes (Breaknose Pass) did not help when I found a sheep staring straight back at me!

Damn, that grass / tussocky stuff is 'bouncy'!

Exeprience as you ride will play a big part in cornering but, the best advice is to concentrate on positioning before the corner and where to look (vanishing point) whilst cornering. If your anus muscles tighten, then you are probably too fast!

Take it easy - build your confidence and it will all start to become easier and really enjoyable - That is why most bikers just love 'twisty' roads!

[Aerodyll]

Wow this thread took off. Lots of advice to take in. Much appreciated. I wouldn't have questioned my cornering and just chalked going wide up to experience and learned from it but the way the cars where right up my backside made me second guess myself. I will stick with what I'm comfortable with and get some more practice in.

Im gonna get a 125 bike soon I think and get some practice in before I do my full test.

Cheers.

[acting_strange]

Get yourself on some form of advanced riding course or do one of the Police Observed days. You will pick up some invaluable tips and your observation will be raised. You will be surprised how much difference it makes.

That's the problem, on a CBT you can't book Bike Safe police course, I tried to book it a month after I passed but couldn't on a CBT. Only option I could find was paying for extra training, but with CamRider who i did CBT with they wanted £100 for a morning, so i didn't. I coulda really done with extra help.

When I got back on the bike after my off I booked with Euro Rider for £60 for half hour at a friends recommendation to help with nerves. It helped, but the guy told me not to worry about countersteering and didn't give much more help than "you just need to put the miles in".

Most help I had with my cornering issues is from following advice on this lovely forum, putting the miles in, and my pillion rides and ride alongs with TMBF

 

Just to clarify, Bikesafe is not an advanced bike riding course, it is a one day (4hrs) course designed to help more experienced riders improve.

By asking someone with only a CBT to "make progress" in bends is more liable to have them going in too hot and crashing. Other areas like road positing could also potentially result in a CBT only rider tangling with oncoming traffic.

If you want advanced training, which Im all in favour of, then most most training places offer them.

[Throttled]

I corner at what feels the safest and smoothest way for me. So long I stay in between the verge and centre line I am not that fussed. I pay more attention to the corner's road surface and any pot holes than limit/vanishing points.

[Glorian]

When i did my CBT the other week we went through all lane positioning and speeds and target fixation for corners, He wouldn't let me out on the bike on the road untill i could do a U-turn to examiner standards Probably a good thing as when i was on the road i was well prepared. I recomend slowing down to a reasonable speed (Reasonable to YOU) and ignore cars behind you if they beep at you for being slow, you need to be safe, comfortable and happy when riding.

[Thinkbiker]

Counter-steering?

For some reason everyone tries to explain the physics behind why this works which just confuses most people and gets misquoted and muddled by everyone else. in the US it gets taught from an early stage and is simple.

For right hand bends;

2. Look Right
4. Push Right
6. Lean Right
8. Go right

For left hand bends

2. Look Left
4. Push Left
6. Lean Left
8. Go Left

The Push is a push forward away from your body different bikes require different effort at different speeds. It really is that simple, forget the physics, forget turning the wrong way this will just confuse you.

Bikesafe for those on a provisional?

There are a couple of reasons why provisional licence holders can't take part

1. lack of experience it could do more harm than good to push an inexperienced rider into using some of the skills and techniques taught

2.Some of the techniques taught during Bikesafe if used during a future DSA test could be deemed a minor or even major fault.

We run a scheme in Gloucestershire and a few areas run similar schemes aimed at 'L' plate riders

[vauxfan]

whats the best way to take a tight corner? clutch in or with throttle? thanks