Thanks a bunch, clutch cover.

[RantMachine]

Right, so in the process of repairing my leaky water pump, I seem to have buggered the clutch. Hopefully only a minor clutch buggering, given as the work I had to do wasn't very intrusive.

In short, BMW made refitting the clutch cover on the F650GS an absolutely miserable and nigh-impossible job. After a few hours of swearing I succeeded, everything seemed to go fine and fit together alright. Except... the clutch doesn't work now

If I disconnect the clutch cable and use a set of grips to rotate the operating shaft, it rotates fine but the rear wheel still doesn't turn freely. There's would seem to be the right amount of resistance in the operating shaft (and it's rotating smoothly without any worrying noises of the grinding variety), so I would've though it safe to assume that it's meshing with the release bearing; if they weren't then surely it would just be rotating freely without resistance OR grinding against the parts it's supposed to mesh with?

I are confuse. Oh, and of course I didn't try the clutch lever until I was part way through refilling the oil and coolant, which is wonderful; will have to drain them all over again in order to get the clutch cover off again

Anything I should check before I undo all my hard work? I really don't know the first damn thing

[Tango]

Which side of the bike is the clutch Ollie?.........you can remove the clutch cover on many bikes without draining the oil as long as the bike is on the side stand........ Sounds like the clutch push rod isn't engaged in the mechanism on the clutch cover........or it's just that the plates have stuck together.......

[cockercas]

Is the pressure plate sat correctly? Sometimes they need a little wiggle.

[Stu]

this might help you get a better idea bob

its a drain of both by the looks of it

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[RantMachine]

Haha, right, here we go replying to Bob:

1. Clutch is on the left hand side and from the amount of oil that came out when I first opened it despite already draining the bike, I'm going to guess that it's not something I can skip... although I might try clamping the hose from the upper reservoir while I work so I don't have to drain that too. It's the coolant that's the main pain, I haven't got enough to fill it up again and I used my last drain bolt crush washer... back to Halfords I go

2. That was my immediate though, but then I know how freely the operating shaft should rotate if it isn't meshed - and if the two weren't meshed properly but are in contact then surely I should feel the difference in the action of the shaft as the two components grind against one another? From having seen the inside of the thing I can't see how it could not mesh properly and still allow the cover to sit flush :S

3. What would cause the plates to stick?

Would an absence of oil be a factor? Because the only idea that came into my uneducated brain was that this might all be down to the oil; I drained the bike on Wednesday so that it had a couple of days for all of the stone-cold oil to trickle out, and so it's probably as dry as a bone in there. Although I've put the first 2L of oil into the upper reservoir, I haven't run the engine yet to get it to circulate the oil - at most a pitiful amount may have trickled down the line from the reservoir, but the clutch is probably still pretty dry.

[RantMachine]

I should add a disclaimer to my Pitsop threads:

Warning: Prepare to be appalled. Your hamster probably knows more about how my bike works than I do. Even if you don't own a hamster.

[Stu]

it I was you I would get the engine running

get it out on the street and try it

how free are you wanting the back wheel to be? as there is always a bit of resistance

[Tango]

Hmm.....just watched that vid........could they have made it any more complicated to remove the clutch?..... Typical BMW though......when I used to have to work on the clutch on the R100 I had years back, it needed the whole rear end of the bike to be removed to get at it....

If the plates have stuck Ollie, you can put the bike in gear and pull the clutch in and rock the bike back and forwards.......or start it and pull the clutch and put it into gear.....just make sure you're covering the brake as it may want to take off.....

[RantMachine]

Stu:

Well if pulling the clutch were making even the slightest bit of difference I'd be pretty happy

Ran it for a bit to circulate the oil and had a fiddle, shifted all the way up and down a few times... no change. I'd almost be tempted to say it's not shifting gear as well as it used to, but I won't really know until I take it on the road. Which I can't do without the clutch working at least a little bit.

Bob:

I had to be in town about 40 minutes ago so I'll have to try those when I get back, fingers crossed...

Any other suggestions that people can add to the list are greatly appreciated, I'll be swearing in the garage into the small hours no doubt and I'll certainly owe a pint to the person that makes the winning suggestion

[RantMachine]

Also, note to self: No more BMWs, next bike needs to be idiot proof.

[wr6133]

More reason to chop it in for that ZZR.....

[RantMachine]

Just how easy is it to work on a ZZR? Fairings aside, of course. I don't mind having to remove them, can't crap that up too badly

[wr6133]

Just how easy is it to work on a ZZR? Fairings aside, of course. I don't mind having to remove them, can't crap that up too badly

Very easy, fairings are fairly quick to remove. An example just after I typed the above the stupidly high winds here blew mine over (centrestand and badly positioned for the wind tunnel my street creates). In the time from that last post I removed the fairings, disconnected the clutch, swapped the damaged cover with a spare one, put it all back together, topped up the oil and had a hot shower. All bar the shower at the kerbside in torrential rain and high wind. Ignoring the fairings it is easier to work on than my old Jinlun and that was pretty simple.

Barring disaster they generally don't need much work though, mines an ancient high miler and still just keeps going. I should check the valves in another 5k or so but I probably won't bother till another 10K. Only thing I'd avoid is the older 600D models my 400 is a k model which is the same as the D and you can't get new fairings for them anymore, the E models (or N for 400) were 1993 onward and you can buy brand new fairing kits still.

[fq-craigus]

Don't know much about the bm clutch but as for your coolant drain it into something clean and reuse it

[Grumpy Old Git]

Seems a hell of a pain to get to the clutch plates.

Best would be to strip down as per the video and rebuild checking all is as it should be. it will probably just be something not quite aligned.

[RantMachine]

Update:

We've just opened it up again, dismantled the clutch, cleaned off any remaining dirty oil and reassembled everything, oiling with clean oil as we go. Got the clutch cover back on again (found a few tricks to make it easier) and tested the clutch... still nothing. Officially got no idea what is wrong. Worth filling the oil again and running it for a bit to warm up and circulate the oil then trying to operate it once more? Or is it just new plates and springs time?

[Stu]

if it worked before then it should work again

there has got to be something wrong somewhere ollie

I wouldnt be spending money on it just yet and I wouldnt fill with oil till its working

[Tango]

Do you want me to come over and take a look Ollie?

[RantMachine]

Thanks for the offer Bob. Now that I'm getting a knack for opening it up I was planning to take a few photos inside of it or record a short video to post in case anyone can see something I'm missing, if that doesn't make it any clearer the I may take you up on that next time you find yourself over this way.

[Tango]

Anytime Ollie.....you just need to shout.....

[Stu]

try here ollie http://faq.f650.com/FAQs/ClutchMiscProbsFAQ.htm

[Stu]

can you run out and get a pic of the clutch actuator

the bit that the cable attaches to on the top of the clutch cover

[RantMachine]

Haven't been using the cable to operate the clutch while trying to get it working, just rotating the operating shaft with a set of grips - takes the cable and lever out of the picture, so two less variables while I'm trying to work out the problem. Also I can't pull in the clutch lever and try spinning the rear wheel at the same time, arms aren't long enough

Just had it open again. Couldn't take decent photos as the lighting in my garage is crap:

* With all plates taken out, clutch core and clutch basket are quite happy to rotate independently of one another - so it's not something in here sticking.

* All plates have been removed, cleaned, re-oiled, and replaced in the original order (twice now).

* Clutch core can be rotated by hand after all plates have been replaced and pressure plate has not been fitted, rear wheel can be rotated by hand while in gear. Not sure if there is more resistance than there should be as I've never done this to a healthy clutch!

* Replaced pressure plate and springs, tightening springs a little at a time in diagonally opposite pairs. All torqued up properly. Basket and core now rotate as one.

* Checked rack and pinion of release bearing and operating shaft - no wear or damage.

* Replaced clutch cover, gently wiggling operating shaft while pushing into place until rack and pinion are meshing properly. Operating shaft gradually rotating counter-clockwise as cover is pushed into place, indicating that the release bearing and operating shaft are meshing properly and this isn't the source of the problem.

* Attempted to operate clutch once fully reassembled - nope, still not working.

[Fozzie]

Everything sounds right...

Apart from the operation shaft going into the clutch area... You can turn it against the spring with grips, pull it with a cable, but is it connected properly inside?

[Fozzie]

Just to elaborate:

When I took the clutch cover off my CBR600, I got all the bolts for the clutch over off, I manipulated the clutch cover by turning the shaft anti-clockwise, it helped prize the cover free as I pulled it away.

But one thing I had to do when re-installing you had to engage the clutch lever, and then turn it clockwise for it to engage correctly. This left the shaft engaged, which it should be when the lever is out. Turning it would then cause the clutch to disengage.

It could be something as simple as that, just sounds odd, it all fits together and seems fine... But could easily be explained if you've just been popping the lever back in. As the resistance you will feel will be against the spring.