Thanks a bunch, clutch cover.

[Stu]

ollie when you try moving the shaft with your grips what happens?

does it move or is it solid?

I would not recommend using grips either as you could destroy the splines!

[RantMachine]

Chris - I'm not really following your post, I'm afraid I'll try reading it again once my brain is out of work mode.

Stu - The operating shaft rotates just fine, there's enough resistance to indicate that it must be meshing with the release bearing (on par with the resistance when disconnecting the clutch cable back when it actually worked) and it rotates smoothly. No grinding or sticking sensations, and as previously mentioned no signs of damage to the rack and pinion. And yeah, don't worry; I'm not so daft as to apply the grips to the bare shaft. I've got the clutch release lever fitted to the shaft and I'm gripping that part - no pressure being applied to delicate bits. Just wanted to rule out the possibility of the cable being the problem.

[Fozzie]

Hard to explain, in the video you posted at 11 mins onwards, if you pay attention he says the rod has splines that catch on the clutches splines in the engine.

You should be able to turn this by hand, and furthermore, you should see the cover move off the bike slightly as you turn it back and forth. The cover should bob back and forth a bit as the clutch moves. See 12:49 in the video.

I use this motion to pop a clutch cover off, and I also twist it the opposite way when putting it all back together, don't ask why, I'm just copying something I did as a nipper when I learned!

It sounds like it's stuck in the "disengaged" mode, so it's stuck as if the lever is fully pulled, which is why I have both eyes on that rod from what you've said.

[ro51znw]

Just read the whole thing, it does sound like its definitely to do with the actual lever, have you tried fitting it with the lever rotated 180 degrees from its current location, could be that its a one way round only operation

[RantMachine]

Chris - Yes, those splines make are the pinion of the rack and pinion that I've been referring to in my earlier posts. Rotating the rod by hand with the cover loose does indeed cause the cover to shift in and out, as depicted in the video. In fact, nothing about the entire process differs from the video, only the end result, and absolutely everything I've tried would indicate that it isn't the release mechanism that's fecking up.

I've posted this same query on the F650 forum - it's taken a while to get responses as it's much slower moving than TMBF (and nowhere near as fun), but now that they've got back to me the popular opinion is that something must be off with my clutch plates. Not that anyone can think of a good reason why something would be wrong with them, but it's the only thing unaccounted for So gotta open it up again and check the thickness of the plate stack.

Yay, back to the dark and dusty garage

[Fozzie]

Hmmmm

Still got a suspect eye on it, the rack and pinion being the bugger to operate the clutch.

For your clutch to not engage at all would require most of the friction plates to be buggered, or sufficiently enough that the remaining ones can't transfer the engines power. So while I'd replace those anyway given the engine has done a good amount of mileage, and I believe it was slipping before hand, I've had instances where I've been very confident I've done something exactly right, then it transpires later one tiny movement caused me to bollocks something up

When you twist it, is the shaft moving in exactly the same direction and position as in the vid?

On an old bike I had to twist it as I installed the cover completely so that the clutch would be engaged when the clutch lever was out.

Other than that, a fresh rebuild with some new plates wouldn't be a bad idea.

If it was slipping before hand it sounds like either a bearing has had it, or the plates anyway. So always worthwhile swapping them out.

[RantMachine]

Ah, think this might be why I've been getting a bit frustrated with trying to explaining everything I've been trying - confusion about the actual fault. The problem isn't that the clutch won't engage, it's that it won't disengage.

[Fozzie]

Ahhh, when it was said the clutch plates were possibly fused, then proved not to be, I thought the issue was clutch in or out makes no difference, the wheel only spins partially or not at all. If it's not disengaging at all that is a big one... Although bikes back wheels often spin slowly when off the ground and in neutral or 1st with the clutch in. That's what you should aim to have when you fix the bike, if the wheel is making more than 1 revolution per 5 seconds or so then it's an issue.

If pulling the lever does nothing, I wonder if the splines on the rack and pinion are slipping.

It's called something like the clutch actuator arm, the reason I keep coming back to it is an old Honda XR400 with the exact same issue had this as the cause. At first the clutch started playing up, sometimes only half disengaging and becoming a pig to ride. Then it appeared to work a bit in that it could get enough purchase to pop the clutch cover, but not enough when all tightened up to move the clutch.

If it's a cheap part on ebay, replace it as par for the course.

Other possible solutions I have come across but can't vouch for that I've seen suggested in similar circumstances:

1. Someone used car oil to soak the clutch plates, as I continually tell people, it's ok in many cases but not all and can have odd effects. So if the oil is a part synth motorbike oil, discount this.

2. Old bike has a worn clutch. Put it in neutral, allow the bike to warm up for a few minutes, with the bike on centre stand and you sat on it with your feet down to support the bike, slam it into 1st gear and give it a good dollop of throttle ensuring the back wheel stays off the ground and a hand hovering on the brake. If correct, the clutch could have worn unevenly and under operating conditions is seizing together. If this frees it up even a bit, try new clutch plates, and perhaps a new basket if you can source one cheap.

3. The clutch cable is mal-adjusted, an issue on many SV650's where the clutch cable drives a worm drive shaft. The cable needs the right freeplay, otherwise even though it appears to move the actuator just fine, it doesn't fully disengage. So play with the clutch cable freeplay and see if it's just a funny adjustment.

That's about all I've got for now unfortunately... Without getting my hands filthy with it any way.

[RantMachine]

Such confuse Had it open again earlier this evening and still no closer to a result. May have lost my temper/sanity and thrown the lever across the garage, in the process snapping off half of the claw that holds the clutch cable. Expensive tantrum fail

Think I may have to take you up on the offer of having a look, Bob - I just don't have any practical experience of what the inside of a functional clutch should be like that I can compare to this and work out what isn't right.

On the bright side, I'm now an absolute pro at removing and refitting the clutch cover that I was cursing in the thread title - took me several hours just to get it back on last time, today it took me 20 minutes to undo everything, remove it, fiddle around inside a little, put it back on, and tighten it up. At least I'm getting some experience out of this...

[RantMachine]

So going back to my most recent enquiry, whar's the best way to check if the plates are warped? Getting very close to hust winging it and buying a new set as that still seems the most probable cause, but if I can double check forst I might save a few quid.

[Stu]

I really dont think you have a problem with your plates ollie and if it was bad enough to make the clutch not work you would see it with your eyes

[Tango]

Sorry Ollie, just seen your most recent posts. I agree with Stu, don't think it's the plate stack.

I can pop over during the week (evenings) or next weekend mate......just let me know which is best for you.....

[RantMachine]

Cheers Bob, much appreciated - I ran out of ideas about three weeks ago I don't tend to do much with my school nights so those are pretty much all free - except Wednesday, gotta see Crystal off back to the States for Xmas. Also completely free at the weekend, the only thing I've got in my calendar is the TMBF Christmas pub outing Any time the works for you would be amazing, I'll keep my garage light charged up just in case

[Tango]

I'll try to get over tomorrow evening Ollie (Tuesday).......and we'll see what we can do......

[RantMachine]

Awesome!

[Tango]

We'll get round 7 ish Ollie if that's ok?

[RantMachine]

Yeah, no problem at all. Gives me time to straighten up the garage a bit, it's a tad messy at the moment...

[Ricky]

On the edge of my seat, good luck trying to fix it!!

[Stu]

is it fixed yet

[RantMachine]

Well we know what the problem is and it'll be working once I replace that part I broke when I lost my temper

Just needed one hell of a lot of force to get the wheel turning. Should I feel a little bit stupid? Probably. But I ran out of shame a while back

[Tango]

I think the clutch plates are a bit sticky from the old contaminated oil........so they don't slip so easily when the clutch is pulled in.......Ollie has tried cleaning them, but I think soaking the plates in fresh oil overnight may do the trick........or worst case, replace the plates......

But essentially the clutch is working......

[Stu]

soaking in new oil and a good run will probably see it right

[RantMachine]

Although it's a little embarassing that it was something so easily remedied, I'm kinda chuffed that I was right in my suspicions about the problem coming from the plates rather than the release mechanism. Still a long way to go, but I must be learning!

[Fozzie]

Glad it's fixed!

A big lesson you learn is that one problem could have a good few causes, and eliminating the things for free first is always the best course. As far as clutch engaging issues go, it's usually the lever mechanism, a bearing or the plates.

You didn't go spending money so you didn't make the classic mistake a friend of mine made... Rebuilt the whole top end looking for a rattle and replaced the timing chain... Then I fixed the rattle by hitting his cam chain tensioner with a hammer unseizing it

Anyway, well done Bob and Ollie, I've liked following this mystery clutch puzzle

[Tango]

Although it's a little embarassing that it was something so easily remedied, I'm kinda chuffed that I was right in my suspicions about the problem coming from the plates rather than the release mechanism. Still a long way to go, but I must be learning!

I know the bike has been a right pain Ollie.......but you've learned a lot from it and gained a lot of confidence to tackle jobs that a lot of people would baulk at........so, every cloud has it's silver lining....