Harri Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Hi all. the idea was to drop the oil today and see if anything materialised from the sump. i.e. 2 screws and a spring!Firstly, the sump bolt didn't feel right as I was undoing it! There seemed to be more turning than there should be. When the bolt did come out it had been wound with ptfe. Is this the done thing? Secondly, no bits from the sump. It looks as if there is a filter at the sump hole. The screws and spring will have to remain in the sump!Thirdly. I was right to doubt the sump bolt. It has obviously been over tightened at some point and either the bolt thread is crossed or the crankcase? Hence the ptfe me thinks. The bolt just spins at the point where it should have tightened!Is it a matter of putting fresh ptfe on OR getting a new sump bolt? We don't know if it is the bolt or crankcase crossed so what do you think guys?Barcud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fro Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 It'd be unlikely to have threaded the bolt - you'd see it on the threads anyway.You can chance your arm with fresh PTFE (I've done worse and got away with it). A better option would be a heli-coil or re-tap the sump threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harri Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Hi, I used a 21mm socket for the sump bolt. Would this be the correct size for the sump?http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OIL-SUMP-6-x- ... 2a230a9cb3Barcud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Do you know what size the bolt is now? Google the size if unsure and buy the helicoil kit for that bolt. They cost £10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I wouldn't use PTFE tape on it.......if it's that loose, then I'd retap it with the tool in your link or Helicoil it like cockercas suggests..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 If you helicoil it you would be better off buying a gasket and dropping the sump to see if you can find the bits your looking for. Helicoil it while its of the bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 If you helicoil it you would be better off buying a gasket and dropping the sump to see if you can find the bits your looking for. Helicoil it while its of the bike.Trouble is that the bike doesn't have a sump pan.......it would need a complete engine strip to split the crankcases..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 That sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 If you helicoil it you would be better off buying a gasket and dropping the sump to see if you can find the bits your looking for. Helicoil it while its of the bike.Trouble is that the bike doesn't have a sump pan.......it would need a complete engine strip to split the crankcases..... neither did my TL but I managed it without stripping drill and tap it then once finished throw a load of petrol into the sump via the clutch cover remember to use a lot of grease on the drill and tap to stop swarf going everywhere this will wash it out and any swarf with it I know it works as I have seen it with my own eyes on my TL you have to remember that the oil has to go through a filter and a strainer before it goes around the engine and you would have to be extremely unlucky for the engine to go pop from not washing it out properly this was a tip given to me by an engine builder and TL racer who has done many like this with no problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I only suggested it so he could find the bits that have dropped in, and it would be easyer to helicoil. I'd use a vacuum while drilling to suck as much crap of the bit as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megawatt Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 A company sells a valve that you can glue/ metal fill into the damaged sump bolt hole. You never have to remove the sump bolt again. There is a short tube and a valve off the end of the tube to allow oil draining. Costs about £35 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fq-craigus Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I used a self cert for my sump bolt as it had been overtightened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 A company sells a valve that you can glue/ metal fill into the damaged sump bolt hole. You never have to remove the sump bolt again. There is a short tube and a valve off the end of the tube to allow oil draining. Costs about £35 though. the problem with these is they sit further out than the sump bolt and they are susceptible getting ripped off! I know of a few stories of this happening although this is on sports bikes that are generally low Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megawatt Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I know a guy that fitted one to a BMW road bike and loves it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harri Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 This is the standard valve that is stated for my XF650. It would hang 10mm lower than my current sump bolt but this wouldn't matter as the original bolt sits above the bikes crash plate.http://www.quickvalve.co.uk/f111_details.htmBut if the thread in the crankcase is knackered it will need rethreading. Then the 14mm thread on the valve would be too small.Barcud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harri Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 If my sump bolt is 14mm, would I re-thread at 14mm or would I have to up to 15mm with something like this?http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15MM-OIL-PAN- ... 4ab9fdde64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fro Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 So wait... This nifty little number means one would no longer have to suffer oil all over one's hands, would allow a predictable flow of oil during draining and speed up the oil changing process?Why do we all not have these already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullscreenaging Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 So wait... This nifty little number means one would no longer have to suffer oil all over one's hands, would allow a predictable flow of oil during draining and speed up the oil changing process?Why do we all not have these already? I'll defo be getting one of these on my next oil change. Fantastic bit of kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megawatt Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 You need to measure the outside diameter of your sump bolt and how far apart the tops of the threads are to get the correct pitch. If you screw the valve thread into a damaged sump thread with arraldite or metalmend on it , it will become part of the sump and shouldn't leak again. You don't necessarily have to rethread it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megawatt Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-XF-650 ... 3390b75b38This is the one I was told about. Bit dearer than yours though. Here's how it workshttp://www.stahlbus.com/products/en/oil ... EN_400.gifThe Quickvalve listed for your bike, Suzuki XF 650 Freewind (AC) 1997-2002 , is listed at £20 though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harri Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Yes Mega, it looks interesting and it is just on £20 for a standard valve for my bike. If I put this valve in with araldite or metalmend how sure could I be it wouldn't leak? Barcud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megawatt Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 If you flush all the oil out of the sump with petrol, warm it dry, then use brake cleaner on the sump and valve, apply arraldite or a plastic metal with lots of aluminium in it and keep sump warm while it sets, you should be successful. If it does leak, just remove it and fit a thread repair adapter, then clean up the valve and screw it back in with some silicone sealant on the threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harri Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 Have you guys heard about self tapping piggy back sump bolts ?A self tapping sump bolt firstly. As you are likely to remove and replace it a few times for oil changes and increase the chance of stripping the thread again, the tapped bolt stays in and into this goes another bolt that IS taken out when changes are needed.I don't know much about them so will google and check them out now.Barcud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harri Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 Stu, when you drilled and tapped your TL what did you upsize the thread and bolt to? I think your TL had an original size M14 with a 1.25 pitch, yes? If so that's the same size as my XF. Barcud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 shit man! I cant remember!! it was a few years ago now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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