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Ive started to do weightd squats now my knees have enough strength to do them.

What should i be aiming for?

I can do about 12/15 squats with 35kg before the mucsle on the back of my leg starts getting tired.

Do i progress with more weight or more reps.

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I had both knees oporated on in dec 2013.

Lost all strength in both legs.

Tride leg exercises but nothing seemed to work untilli put a roof on and must of done 1000s of step ups . There better now then they was but i want them stronger.

How many should i aim for?

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You're not far off - depends what you want really. If you're going for power and size then you'll be looking at those sort of reps with a few minutes between sets. If you'd rather work stamina than more reps at a lower weight is better.

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Im only after strong knees. Not massive legs or anything like that.

Just so that if i jump and down or kneel on the floor i dont have a weeks recovery.

Physio told me before that tgmhe 3 main mucsles in my legs are really weak.

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If you want to build size, stay at those sort of reps.


If you want strength, lower the number of reps and up the weight a bit.


A good long-term goal would be squatting your bodyweight.


I used to have dodgy knees. Started off squatting the bar (20kg).


Squat 160kg now. With a goal of 180 before the end if the year.


Just slow, easy progression is the best way. And make sure you squat loooow, don't cut them off really high. You want your ass to be going below your knees. This helps your glutes and quads to take the weight. Cut them high and your knees do, which is the opposite of what you want.


Good luck with it!

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With respect to all who have posted...


This is like posting in bikes saying "what should I buy, I can go 60miles on my SV before I want to stop". (not enough foundation information).


So this would be my foundation questions for advice;


1) What is the main goal here? Physio's version of strength can be taken as stability, not how much weight you can lift.

2) What was the operation on your knees?

3) What are you feeling in the back of your legs? If it's a burning sensation that's just lactic acid build up from an oxygen debt - nothing to worry about, just means you're probably around about the right weight to start off with (12-15 reps is good for a starter to weight training - assuming fatigue is reached at the 15th rep).

4) How often are you training / what's your routine?

5) What were/are you having physio for?

6) Back to number 1 - what's the goal?!?!

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All good points, Phil.


But this:

 

Physio's version of strength can be taken as stability, not how much weight you can lift.

 

They're directly related.


The supporting muscles and tendons will only be strengthen via progressive overload.


Hence you see new gym goers with knees wobbling all over the place.

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With respect to all who have posted...


1) What is the main goal here? Physio's version of strength can be taken as stability, not how much weight you can lift.

Just some strength. Legs ache at the end of the day, can't ride a push bike, can't jump down of things etc. at the end of a track day I can't walk down the slope to the club house at cadwell because my legs won't support the weight going down hill.


2) What was the operation on your knees?

Torn cartilage on both Knees with a significant Tear on the right.


3) What are you feeling in the back of your legs? If it's a burning sensation that's just lactic acid build up from an oxygen debt - nothing to worry about, just means you're probably around about the right weight to start off with (12-15 reps is good for a starter to weight training - assuming fatigue is reached at the 15th rep).

Not sure what fatigue is? It's the muscle between my arse and knee on the right side get tired first. I could probably push through it but recon it would do more harm then good.


4) How often are you training / what's your routine?

Nightly but just started. Bar over the shoulders and just squats.


5) What were/are you having physio for?

I was for the above op. Waste of time the bloke was just ticking boxes.


6) Back to number 1 - what's the goal?!?! Just some strength, not interested in massive toned legs or anything.

 

^^^^ answers above

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All good points, Phil.


But this:

 

Physio's version of strength can be taken as stability, not how much weight you can lift.

 

They're directly related.


The supporting muscles and tendons will only be strengthen via progressive overload.


Hence you see new gym goers with knees wobbling all over the place.

Way too many factors involved to determine wobbly knees as weak muscles. They could have a number of issues causing postural alignment issues.


The reason for my questioning is that his past issues could have stemmed from ligament damage for example - which is a factor that needs to be considered when programming. Also, A newbie to weight training doesn't NEED to do anything more than 12-15 reps. They won't benefit more than their risk of injury (such as tendinitis) will be.


You're right by definition, they will be strengthened, but like you said, it needs to be progressive.

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With respect to all who have posted...


1) What is the main goal here? Physio's version of strength can be taken as stability, not how much weight you can lift.

Just some strength. Legs ache at the end of the day, can't ride a push bike, can't jump down of things etc. at the end of a track day I can't walk down the slope to the club house at cadwell because my legs won't support the weight going down hill.


2) What was the operation on your knees?

Torn cartilage on both Knees with a significant Tear on the right.


3) What are you feeling in the back of your legs? If it's a burning sensation that's just lactic acid build up from an oxygen debt - nothing to worry about, just means you're probably around about the right weight to start off with (12-15 reps is good for a starter to weight training - assuming fatigue is reached at the 15th rep).

Not sure what fatigue is? It's the muscle between my arse and knee on the right side get tired first. I could probably push through it but recon it would do more harm then good.


4) How often are you training / what's your routine?

Nightly but just started. Bar over the shoulders and just squats.


5) What were/are you having physio for?

I was for the above op. Waste of time the bloke was just ticking boxes.


6) Back to number 1 - what's the goal?!?! Just some strength, not interested in massive toned legs or anything.

 

^^^^ answers above

Firstly, the soreness is normal, it's D.O.M.S for short - or delayed onset muscle soreness. It occurs (we believe) through micro tears in the muscle through exercise. It's get progressively better the more you exercise. The only thing that will help alleviate will the the sauna, straight after your session. Forget bollocks like stretching - it's stretching (under tension) that causes DOMS!


Anyway,


You're on the right track - stick with the 12-15 reps, but not daily. Give your muscles a chance to repair themselves. I would suggest, if you're new to exercise (and squatting) that you should try the leg press instead. It will largely give you the same results but won't be compromised by improper technique. Having said that, if you think your technique is good then carry on!


You don't need to train your legs more than 1-2x per week depending on how hard you hit them. If your DOMS is lasting more than 4-5 days, stick to once per week.


You should be fine with squats and your previous injuries - I would probably avoid lots of jumping though if there's much in your gym programme with that?!


You should try the leg extension machine at the gym too - this is good for part of your quads (vastus medialis obliques - VMO) that I'd bet money on your physio determining as weak. Again, absolutely fine for your past history.


Hope that helps.

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If you're doing leg days I wouldn't just do squats.


Do some stretches, then hit the leg press for 3 sets of 8-12 reps if you want to build up some muscle. But I'd also do some leg curls in the same manner and lunges as well.

Also make sure you get good nutrition around the time you are in the gym, I drink an ungodly amount of milk which is rich in casein protein, and then I have whey protein shakes as well. It chops the recovery time in half for me.


I'm doing it to keep fit, strong and build up a bit. I was only 60kg when I started and now I'm over 80kg. Still not heavy for a guy standing at 6ft 2 but good enough :lol:

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Good assistance exercises those.


Another thing to remember with squats, is there's always an element of risk attached to them. If you find you really don't get on with them, there's no point pushing it and injuring yourself. Leg press and leg curls/hamstring curls will generally suffice for most gym goers.


Also, Fozzie - 80kg at 6'2"? Man alive! I was very thin at '6" before I started.


Now I'm 90 at 5'6" and aiming for 95 before the end of the year. Haha!

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Ultimately it depends on your end goal like others have said.


There is some very good advice out there, im a Level 3 Personal Trainer so if you want any advice then pm me and id be happy to help.


Theres so many variants to change and not just weight and reps, theres also rest between sets and also tempo of the exercise (how long you take to either lift the weight or lower the weight), these are but a few examples,which will change depending on what your end goal is.


One thing i will say which will never change is MAKE SURE YOU GET THE FORM RIGHT!!


So many people think lifting a heavy weight is more important but you will only injure yourself if you go too heavy and dont lift properly.


Let me know if you need any help. :)

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Good assistance exercises those.



Also, Fozzie - 80kg at 6'2"? Man alive! I was very thin at '6" before I started.


Now I'm 90 at 5'6" and aiming for 95 before the end of the year. Haha!

 

When I was 60kg at that height it was more astounding!


I'd say I wasn't doing bad whacking on 10kg per year! I could eat more than anyone who challenged (including a few hefty mates) so I just assume I have an absolutely raging matabolism.


My bmi is 15% though, a few gym mates I used to train with were around the 90kg mark, but their bmi was nearer 25% and they were on creatine which I avoid as my kidneys dislike it and they carried a lot more water weight. You'd assume they could do more but then my 42" chest was benching more than their 46-48" chests could.


My aim is the mid 90s, with a slightly lower bmi... No more as at that point you're built like captain America.

I can bench 120kg as it is though so christ knows what you have to do to get to 90kg. I can squat clear over 100kg but it's my most hated exercise as I don't like loading my back.

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Good assistance exercises those.



Also, Fozzie - 80kg at 6'2"? Man alive! I was very thin at '6" before I started.


Now I'm 90 at 5'6" and aiming for 95 before the end of the year. Haha!

 

When I was 60kg at that height it was more astounding!


I'd say I wasn't doing bad whacking on 10kg per year! I could eat more than anyone who challenged (including a few hefty mates) so I just assume I have an absolutely raging matabolism.


My bmi is 15% though, a few gym mates I used to train with were around the 90kg mark, but their bmi was nearer 25% and they were on creatine which I avoid as my kidneys dislike it and they carried a lot more water weight. You'd assume they could do more but then my 42" chest was benching more than their 46-48" chests could.


My aim is the mid 90s, with a slightly lower bmi... No more as at that point you're built like captain America.

I can bench 120kg as it is though so christ knows what you have to do to get to 90kg. I can squat clear over 100kg but it's my most hated exercise as I don't like loading my back.

 

Sounds like your doing well Fozzie, although BMI isnt the best way to assess your body, most rugby players are morbidly obese by the BMI scale, asses your current body situation on body fat percentage and youll get a more accurate idea of where you are.


20% is average for blokes, 15% is athletic and 10% or under is look at my six pack i never knew it was there range.


The simple mechanics of either losing weight or putting it on is all about calories in vs calories out, For someone hitting the gym a bit and lifting heavy weights then you need to hit about 4-5k calories a day which is no mean feat.


People underestimate how much they need to eat to pack on weight especially if trying to gain muscle, and strength and weight are not directly linked, theres a guy who comes in the gym who weighs about 10 stone 8% body fat hes qwuite short about 5'6, ripped as hell, and he can leg press about 300 kg (has a dodgy back which is why he doesnt do squats, he can also bench about 150 kgs for ten reps, still looks like he'll blow over with a strong wind. He has one of the best power to weight ratios ive ever seen. Proper respect to him :D

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Mixed up my terms, my body fat is 15% and dropping.


My diet is a limiting factor now, I just don't eat enough so I've hit a wall at 80-82kg. It was nice to have a 6 pack out on show whilst on holiday for a change even if I'm pale as a ghost. But I want more size on me.

I can only manage around 3000 calories a day, when I'm on a cheat day this escalates to 4000 when nandos is involved. So I need the calories of the cheat day with the good diet of the non-cheat days :lol:


I'm on a 4 day a week split, usually I do arms, chest/shoulders, legs/core, back days. For cardio I cover about 15-20 miles a week just on foot in jogging and walking. Swapping this out to cycling to increase range and resistance.


I eat a diet of mainly chicken, milk, veg, fruit, whey protein shakes, nuts, etc. Need to go onto plus sized portions.

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