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GPS or Phone in a Windscreen Mount Cradle


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A new penalty came in today for mobile phone use, ban for new drivers, or 6 points and £200 fine for the rest of us.


What can or can't you do legally with a device (phone, sat nav, music player or radio) either on your windscreen or integrated into your dashboard? I'm not asking what you should be allowed to do, or how silly you think it is, just what does the law say?


Since 2003 a fixed penalty has been in place for hand held, but if you were using a windscreen mounted cradle. so long as it didn't obscure your view, you could use it, just as you could use a dashboard integrated sat nav, radio, etc, and just as you could drink a coffee or smoke a cigarette. If a police officer thought you weren't in proper control of your vehicle as a result they could stop you and report you, but they couldn't issue a fixed penalty, it had to be proven in court as part of a Careless / DWDC driving charge.


The Dail Mail says the first kid has been banned under the new penalties as a result of using his GPS. But it doesn't say whether he had it in his hand or on the dashboard, and it's the Daily Fail so you can't trust anything they write anyway http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4271246/Drivers-caught-using-mobile-phones-wheel-again.html


If there is new legislation the name of it or any links to it would be appreciated.

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Just use what you need and leave it alone while you drive/ride. What cop is going to be able to tell as you're driving anyway? let alone care or pull you over for it. As long as you're leaving it alone chances are you'll be fine.

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If there is new legislation the name of it or any links to it would be appreciated.

 

The legislation has not changed, it all relates to using hand held devices.


If it is mounted on a windscreen in a cradle, or other suitably designed mounting, and providing it does not obscure your vision, and providing you don't fiddle with it whilst on the move, then there is no problem.


If visiiblity is obscured (and I have seen a few of these) then there is the option to prosecute for failing to maintain proper control, or driving/riding with obscured visibility, which could potentially initself provide sufficient evidence to prosecute for Careless driving (You do not charge someone with a motoring offence unless they have been arrested and formally charged :wink: ) but then it has to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt that the device caused the users standard of driving to fall below that expected of a reasonably safe and competent driver, and the emphasis is on the term "reasonable" which is the test.


So, if the device is mounted securely, not obscuring the drivers view and not fiddled or played with whilst on the move, there is absolutely no issue.


Use a hand held device whilst on the go, then you are banged to rights.


As someone suggested this morning, all those texting whilst on the move should be told by text "You are banned" They are more likely to see the text message than a big car with flaching blue lights alongside them.

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If there is new legislation the name of it or any links to it would be appreciated.

 

The legislation has not changed, it all relates to using hand held devices.


If it is mounted on a windscreen in a cradle, or other suitably designed mounting, and providing it does not obscure your vision, and providing you don't fiddle with it whilst on the move, then there is no problem.


If visiiblity is obscured (and I have seen a few of these) then there is the option to prosecute for failing to maintain proper control, or driving/riding with obscured visibility, which could potentially initself provide sufficient evidence to prosecute for Careless driving (You do not charge someone with a motoring offence unless they have been arrested and formally charged :wink: ) but then it has to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt that the device caused the users standard of driving to fall below that expected of a reasonably safe and competent driver, and the emphasis is on the term "reasonable" which is the test.


So, if the device is mounted securely, not obscuring the drivers view and not fiddled or played with whilst on the move, there is absolutely no issue.


Use a hand held device whilst on the go, then you are banged to rights.


As someone suggested this morning, all those texting whilst on the move should be told by text "You are banned" They are more likely to see the text message than a big car with flaching blue lights alongside them.

 

Thanks for that TC!


What constitutes "fiddling with"? And would "fiddling with" fall under a fixed penalty, or would lack of control have to be proven in court?


If you either press the green button to answer a call on a phone, or you press "Destination" > "Home" on your sat nav, that's not really any different to changing radio stations, and certainly no different to doing the same on a dashboard integrated screen.


If you're typing in an address to the sat nav while driving, I totally get it then, you deserve the book thrown at you.

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What constitutes "fiddling with"? And would "fiddling with" fall under a fixed penalty, or would lack of control have to be proven in court?


If you either press the green button to answer a call on a phone, or you press "Destination" > "Home" on your sat nav, that's not really any different to changing radio stations, and certainly no different to doing the same on a dashboard integrated screen.


If you're typing in an address to the sat nav while driving, I totally get it then, you deserve the book thrown at you.

 

You have more or less answered your own question :wink:


Like you say, pressing one button on a mounted device in the same way as you would to change a radio station channel would have no bearing. But start plumbing in details or addresses whilst on the move then you leave yourself open.


I used the term fiddling as a generic term, but the test is still subjective and it still has to be proven that the standard of driving fell below that expected of a reasonably safe and competent driver, and so by and large, it still goes back to the principal that if the device is mounted, then it is not going to be much of an issue.

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What constitutes "fiddling with"? And would "fiddling with" fall under a fixed penalty, or would lack of control have to be proven in court?


If you either press the green button to answer a call on a phone, or you press "Destination" > "Home" on your sat nav, that's not really any different to changing radio stations, and certainly no different to doing the same on a dashboard integrated screen.


If you're typing in an address to the sat nav while driving, I totally get it then, you deserve the book thrown at you.

 

You have more or less answered your own question :wink:


Like you say, pressing one button on a mounted device in the same way as you would to change a radio station channel would have no bearing. But start plumbing in details or addresses whilst on the move then you leave yourself open.


I used the term fiddling as a generic term, but the test is still subjective and it still has to be proven that the standard of driving fell below that expected of a reasonably safe and competent driver, and so by and large, it still goes back to the principal that if the device is mounted, then it is not going to be much of an issue.

 

Great, thank you very much. Common sense at the end of the day, any decent driver knows what's dangerous and what isn't. I just asked because the law doesn't always make sense!

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  • 2 weeks later...

My top tip on this if your on Android is try your phone as a SatNav.... With hands free and data connection its quicker to say "navigate XYZ" than it is to type it.


In theory can you send text through it as well, I have found its only useful to message things like "ETA 0930" oh and google does not seem to struggle to understand the word "Send"...


The other useful thing you can do is say "Read new text message". All within the rules as I understand, I also only do these thing when on clear Empty road not in traffic etc.


For me having a phone mounted in clear view is less of a sidetrack than in a pocket where you can hear/ feel its doing things and not know what.


Better to see message from mum than worry its one changing the rendezvous your heading to. You can then decide to stop if you want, then I get so few messages its maybe a few times a day not hour...

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Saw a bloke today just stopped in the road on his phone. I suspect we will see a lot more of this - phone rings, slam on the brakes, engine off and chat... Penalty for stopping is probably less than using the phone on the move. What would the cops book you for if they found you just stopped in the road engine off chatting on the phone?

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Since all the publicity around this and becoming more aware of what the law is (I knew anyway but when a law has been around since 2003 you forget the details), I've realised I keep breaking it.


When returning to and sitting down in the parked car, I start my engine before I put the phone in the windscreen holder, sometimes if I have a notification I'll check and clear the notification as well. Of course the phone is in the holder before I release the handbrake, put the car in gear and pull out of the parking space, but I've still broken the law because I started my engine.


I hope a copper would never consider writing me a ticket in those circumstances though, or I'd call him all the names under the sun.

Edited by Anonymous
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Another helpful thing I've started doing with my android phone is putting it into Android Auto mode when it's mounted in the car - means you get bigger buttons, a simpler layout and access to only Maps, phone and audio apps. Will read out messages (including WhatsApp) if you want, but you can't actually view them, and has loads of spoken commands too.


Also means it's harder to "just have a quick look" at something you shouldn't while driving.

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Ive been know to jump in the car and drive off then realise how uncomfortable it is to have a phone in my back pocket. I would be breaking the law by removing it and placing it in the door pocket, but if it was my wallet it would be perfectly fine...

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Ive been know to jump in the car and drive off then realise how uncomfortable it is to have a phone in my back pocket. I would be breaking the law by removing it and placing it in the door pocket, but if it was my wallet it would be perfectly fine...

 

Technically would you have committed an offence, given you didn't interact with it in any way? I don't know, I'd have to let TC answer that one. But if a copper sees you with it in your hand, I don't expect that to wash as an excuse. "I was just putting it in the door pocket officer".


PS: leave it in your back pocket while driving and you can expect to be visiting the screen repair shop!

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Ive been know to jump in the car and drive off then realise how uncomfortable it is to have a phone in my back pocket. I would be breaking the law by removing it and placing it in the door pocket, but if it was my wallet it would be perfectly fine...

 

Technically would you have committed an offence, given you didn't interact with it in any way? I don't know, I'd have to let TC answer that one. But if a copper sees you with it in your hand, I don't expect that to wash as an excuse. "I was just putting it in the door pocket officer".


PS: leave it in your back pocket while driving and you can expect to be visiting the screen repair shop!

 

From TC's article


"Firstly, you only have to be seen using a hand held device whilst driving for the offence to be committed"


So what you are asking is what constitutes "Using"?

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"Firstly, you only have to be seen using a hand held device whilst driving for the offence to be committed"


So what you are asking is what constitutes "Using"?

 

I understood that holding the phone was enough to get you in trouble. admittedly my source is the DailyExpress article that states:

 

Can you use a hands-free phone while driving?


You are allowed to use fully hands-free phones while driving but you are forbidden from touching or picking it up, even for a moment.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/774549/phone-driving-laws-2017-new-rules-explained-how-you-could-be-fined-lose-points-penalties

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What about Mac D's drive thru and apple pay?


Surely you're not committing an offence if you are on private property?

ah but if you were to drive a car uninsured through the drive through you would be committing an offence, just as you cant let your unlicensed/underage mate drive round a supermarket carpark, so technically pay-by-phone at a drive trough is now illegal.. lol


edit:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/drivers-using-apple-pay-drive-9966426

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What about Mac D's drive thru and apple pay?


Surely you're not committing an offence if you are on private property?

 

If the private property is open to members of the public then the rules of the road apply. To be classed as private property for traffic law it needs to be securely gated so not any Joe Public can drive onto it.

Edited by Anonymous
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What about Mac D's drive thru and apple pay?


Surely you're not committing an offence if you are on private property?

 

If the private property is open to members of the public then the rules of the road apply. To be classed as private property for traffic law it needs to be securely gated so not any Joe Public can drive onto it.

 

That's me told then.

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What about during the cold nights? Like if someone is dogging and leaves the car running to keep warm, but will be walking around filming whatever transpires?


Asking for a friend.

Been down that layby on the A43 again Dave?


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

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What about during the cold nights? Like if someone is dogging and leaves the car running to keep warm, but will be walking around filming whatever transpires?


Asking for a friend.

 


Stu could probably answer that one .

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What about during the cold nights? Like if someone is dogging and leaves the car running to keep warm, but will be walking around filming whatever transpires?


Asking for a friend.

 


Stu could probably answer that one .

 


Only because Six told me the law on it!

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