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Bullsh*t speeding ticket: what now?


MarkW
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Last Wednesday my wife and I tootled off for a day out a few miles up the road for my birthday. As we rounded a corner we saw a motorcycle cop on the grass verge with a hand-held speed gun. We both looked at the speedo, as you can't help but do in such circumstances: fractionally over 40 mph on the clock, 40 bang on according to the satnav.


The speed limit on this particular stretch has relatively recently been reduced from the 60 mph it has been for the last 40 years to 40 mph, despite no changes to the road layout or the surrounding area, and it is a notorious hunting ground for those desperate to protect innocent members of the public from the extreme danger posed by reckless motorists who may now happen to go round it at 45 mph. I know that sounds cynical, but the point is I know the road and plenty of people who've been done there for minor infractions (including one of our employees) so it's not somewhere I'm likely to allow myself to get caught.


So imagine my surprise when a NIP landed on my doormat this morning claiming I'd been clocked at 53 mph! Absolute b*llocks. Coincidentally, I noticed that 53 mph is the maxim limit in a 40 zone to be eligible for a speed awareness course (really struggling to keep the cynicism in check here). Not sure how to proceed now. I saw the old prisoners dilemma on the back of the form (accept you're guilty and we'll punish you; expect us to provide evidence and we'll punish you even more) which always struck me as not even having a nodding acquaintanceship with any notion of justice.


Anyway, any advice from you guys much appreciated...

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Do they need to keep video evidence of "the offence" for any length of time?

If so, shouldnt this be available to view even after the conviction?

In other words, take the punishment then demand to see the evidence and try to get the conviction quashed rather then contest and face double punishment for daring to question thier authority.


It's a totally unfair system that increases the punishment simply because you ask for proof.

Next time you see him, run him over - at least murderers get a fair trial ;)

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on a recent ride a bunch of us got done for speeding... my mate isn't quite sure what he messed up but after sending the NIP back got a letter saying we advise you not to take us to court here's the evidence blah blah... it's a risky strategy though not sure if you'd always get that safety net if you did want to contest it....if you're within the course limits probably best to try take that :crybaby:

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Do they need to keep video evidence of "the offence" for any length of time?

If so, shouldnt this be available to view even after the conviction?

In other words, take the punishment then demand to see the evidence and try to get the conviction quashed rather then contest and face double punishment for daring to question thier authority.


It's a totally unfair system that increases the punishment simply because you ask for proof.

Next time you see him, run him over - at least murderers get a fair trial ;)

 

I'm not sure you can do that as by taking the hit you're basically admitting guilt so it would be difficult to contest afterwards.

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Tell them you was doing the same speed as the wife and supply her reg number to check their records too :popcorn:



You could ask for the evidence and say you are not sure who was riding the bike at the time? then if they fail to deliver maybe just maybe you could have something :?


Otherwise take it on the chin

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Tell them you was doing the same speed as the wife and supply her reg number to check their records too :popcorn:



You could ask for the evidence and say you are not sure who was riding the bike at the time? then if they fail to deliver maybe just maybe you could have something :?


Otherwise take it on the chin

Good thinking, but we were in the car! :lol:

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I think that any NIP that is not issued by the police at the time should be accompanied with the photo evidence and a copy of the camera calibration certificate as a matter of course.

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Not much help now but it's another reason I use a dash cam. Those with gps record your speed. If the camera was faulty, or picked up a stray signal from another vehicle, you've got evidence to prove your speed.


A few years back I had a copper wave a radar gun at me, I was pretty sure I was within the limit but it made me ring my brother-in-law who is a copper. He said they that with a hand held gun they have to stop you on the spot. Usually they have a colleague down the road to pull you over. No idea if that is still the case, it's just what he told me at the time.

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Ask to see the evidence,been here way to many times lol, the penalty should stay the same (either fine or awareness course) unless contested in court then if it doesn't go your way it gets expensive

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I was also under the impression that they have to stop you and fine you on the spot if its a guy with a radar.


If they dont stop you at the time(to show you the reading) or have another form of evidence then surely it is their word against yours.


Hope it hasnt got to the point where they are just sending fines out on the post with nothing needed to prove an ofnce was commited.

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I was also under the impression that they have to stop you and fine you on the spot if its a guy with a radar.


If they dont stop you at the time(to show you the reading) or have another form of evidence then surely it is their word against yours.

 

That is just a myth. Never has been the case. A traffic cop can even do you for speeding without any device but just by giving an opinion. It is called "Speed Reckless" I have used it twice in my career.


It is very rarely used these days, but its still there to be used.


You do and never have been required to be stopped at the time. It makes life easier to stop you at the time as you are given a verbal NIP rather than having to send out a written one, but you do not have to be stopped at the time in law.


Usually though, a traffic Policeman will form an opinion and then have that opinion confirmed by an approved device, so it may be a radar device, Truvello, Muniquip, VASCAR or just the calibrated speedo head of the patrol car over minimum distances.

 


A few years back I had a copper wave a radar gun at me, I was pretty sure I was within the limit but it made me ring my brother-in-law who is a copper. He said they that with a hand held gun they have to stop you on the spot. Usually they have a colleague down the road to pull you over. No idea if that is still the case, it's just what he told me at the time.

 

That may be a local procedure thing depending on what Force they operate in. It is not a legal requirement and they do not have to stop you at the time.


If you are adamant that you were not doing the speed that is alleged, then you can and you are entitled to plead not guilty and ask for a hearing and bring the copper to court.


You only have to put reasonable doubt in the mind of the magistrates (3 of them if lay magistrates, 1 if a Stipend) and they must aquit you. Mistakes do sometimes get made and this may just be such a case, but it is for you to raise the reasonable doubt.


The prosecution are not obliged to give you any photos but usually will do so when a not guilty plea is received. But in this case there is no photographc evidence, and a section 9 prosecution statement will be served once a plea of not guilty has been received.

 

Do they need to keep video evidence of "the offence" for any length of time?

If so, shouldnt this be available to view even after the conviction?

 

What makes you think there is video evidence? Video is an aid, not a reqirement and I would certainly not expect a copper at the side of the road to be video recording.

 

Calibration certificate?

 

If the OP pleads not guilty the reporting officer will provide a statement and details of the calibration will/should be provided within his statement. If it is a following check against a speedo, then the speedo is checked once a week against the designated measured mile at 30 and 60 and this information is also included in the evidence.


If it is using something like Muniquip, the calibration is checked against a tuning fork set for 30 MPH and is used before and after use each time.


Modern devices such as radar have their own in built calibration, but suffice to say that most of the early loopholes were filled in a long time ago.


To all of you, please don't get sucked in by myth and guesswork as many have done here. I appreciate that there are many stories doing the rounds, but most are unfounded or have been twisted to suit the story of individuals.


The bottom line is, if you feel that you have been hard done by, and you are confident that is the case, then plead not guilty and take your chances in court. That is your right and your entitlement.

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The bottom line is, if you feel that you have been hard done by, and you are confident that is the case, then plead not guilty and take your chances in court. That is your right and your entitlement.

But by challenging the ticket and going to court you risk greater punishment. Is that correct?? If so how is that possibly fair??

And what defence do you have against a calibrated radar gun? Even with video evidence of your own speedo showing 40mph they would simply point out that theirs is calibrated and yours isn't.

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My question is what evidence do you need? If you have the right box's ticked google can draw your location history.


Can you get the speed from this and would this be sufficient evidence? In the case you describe it should not be hard to prove a 25% difference in speed.

Was your Satnav logging data you could use?

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If you have the right box's ticked google can draw your location history.


Can you get the speed from this and would this be sufficient evidence? In the case you describe it should not be hard to prove a 25% difference in speed.

Was your Satnav logging data you could use?

Google doesn't provide speed. This would only work if you were accused of stealing knickers of a line in Kent when you were in Newcastle giving it large in the Bigg Market.


Me? Being nicked for speeding is a hazard drivers and riders face. I'd pay up and get on with life.

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Thanks TC - invaluable input as usual, and much appreciated.


I've had two previous 3-point speeding tickets in the nearly 27 years I've been driving (separated by well over 20 years) and although in both cases they were massively irritating I held my hands up without argument, took the points and paid the fine. This time is different: I know damn well I wasn't speeding, and to have achieved a recorded 53 mph on the device my speedo must have been indicating something like 55-56!


There are plenty of sites 'exposing' the inaccuracy of hand-held radar/laser equipment when set up and used according to standard procedures, but even assuming these are legitimate shortcomings of the technology I don't see that it gets me anywhere: the traffic officer will whip out his calibration certificate / expert opinion / years of experience and God knows what else, whereas I have nothing to back up my claim other than the fact that my wife (who can't be considered an impartial witness) was sitting next to me and also knows damn well that I wasn't speeding.


I don't fancy my chances in court. It only takes three days training to be a magistrate and no qualifications other than the ability to sit still for long periods, and that's not exactly my preferred forum for questioning the veracity of a police officer's evidence. Besides, they must see so many guilty people trying to wriggle out of speeding tickets that a genuine case would get a pretty jaded hearing.


I don't approve of speed trap detectors and have never owned one, but this sort of b*llshit makes me sorely tempted to buy one.

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Even with video evidence of your own speedo showing 40mph they would simply point out that theirs is calibrated and yours isn't.

 

The use of a dash cam is not that it videos your speedo - that wouldn't usually apply in a car anyway - but those with gps register your speed on their own system. So when you play back the recording your speed is shown at the side of the footage. In terms of calibration you're not relying on the speedo but the gps signal which is generally pretty accurate.

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Even with video evidence of your own speedo showing 40mph they would simply point out that theirs is calibrated and yours isn't.

 

The use of a dash cam is not that it videos your speedo - that wouldn't usually apply in a car anyway - but those with gps register your speed on their own system. So when you play back the recording your speed is shown at the side of the footage. In terms of calibration you're not relying on the speedo but the gps signal which is generally pretty accurate.

But too easy to alter the software so it always reads the correct speed for the road rather than GPS speed.. ;)

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Even with video evidence of your own speedo showing 40mph they would simply point out that theirs is calibrated and yours isn't.

 

The use of a dash cam is not that it videos your speedo - that wouldn't usually apply in a car anyway - but those with gps register your speed on their own system. So when you play back the recording your speed is shown at the side of the footage. In terms of calibration you're not relying on the speedo but the gps signal which is generally pretty accurate.

But too easy to alter the software so it always reads the correct speed for the road rather than GPS speed.. ;)

 

Would it not be possible to work out the speed using (for example) lamppost distances on the footage? Surely that would confirm the speed shown.

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The use of a dash cam is not that it videos your speedo - that wouldn't usually apply in a car anyway - but those with gps register your speed on their own system. So when you play back the recording your speed is shown at the side of the footage. In terms of calibration you're not relying on the speedo but the gps signal which is generally pretty accurate.

But too easy to alter the software so it always reads the correct speed for the road rather than GPS speed.. ;)

 

Would it not be possible to work out the speed using (for example) lamppost distances on the footage? Surely that would confirm the speed shown.

Yes, but it's also possible to slow the footage down to make it appear you're traveling slower...

You stand no chance with a privately owned dashcams against the police and thier calibrated equipment.

So if you annoy a policeman it would be easy for them to slap you with a speeding ticket and you have zero defence.

Totally currupt system to uphold laws created by health and safety idiots.

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