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Jumpstart kit


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Hi guys and galls,


I'm looking for a rechargeable jumpstart kit? so when my batteries dies I can jumpstart the bike myself as I have not really got people close by that can do it for me.


If it's transportable bonus. Any suggestions is very welcome.

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Why do you think your battery is going to die?

 

Because my battery is dead now?

 

Then you have some problem that you need to fix! Once sorted you will have no problems :)

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Buy a Lithium Iron jump starter. About £40 from Lidl, when in stock. Loads on eBay.

 

I agree with the comments to sort the problem not the symptoms, but if you're going to buy a jump start kit the lithium ion packs are very good. I have one I use for portable 12v power for all sorts of uses, and it will start a V6 diesel if needed. The size of them is pretty incredible. Mine is the size of a paperback book - you'd probably not need one quite as big though. But if you need a good source of backup power they are highly recommended.

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I once had my spares philosophy changed when a colleague found me pouring my petrol into my car. "yeah I carry spare fuel too. I keep it in the tank!"

If you need a spare battery its because you have a battery problem or a charging problem (sounds like it might be OVER charging and cooking the cells). Fix the busted thing. You won't have the spare with you when you need it.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I am in wo minds here. Lithium Ion is a powerful battery technology but Lithium Ion batteries have a reputation of spontaneously bursting into flames or exploding. Do we really want explosives next to a fuel tank.


The risk exists if they overheat they can burst into flames if they are punctured they can react with moisture in the air and explode.


A jumpstarter containing this technology for me is a risk too far. Particularly as the storage of what constitutes an explosive might well be under my seat, where accidents might be undesirable, due to the nearness of things.

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I am in wo minds here. Lithium Ion is a powerful battery technology but Lithium Ion batteries have a reputation of spontaneously bursting into flames or exploding. Do we really want explosives next to a fuel tank.


The risk exists if they overheat they can burst into flames if they are punctured they can react with moisture in the air and explode.


A jumpstarter containing this technology for me is a risk too far. Particularly as the storage of what constitutes an explosive might well be under my seat, where accidents might be undesirable, due to the nearness of things.

 

er but we have a system of wiring that can burst into flames,

various fuel delivery systems that can leak fuel onto hot surfaces

not mentioning the main item that is powered by an explosion ...all of these live under your prized possesions ...


lithium batteries are leaps and bounds on their volatile ancestors and if you buy a cheap imported battery powered item .. they are not tested to the same extent or have the failsafes .

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That sounds sensible Tim, it is true the electrical systems could burst into flames the fuel in the tank could burst into flames the same could be said of cars. The fact is they don't burst into flames or explode in daily use. On the other hand Lithium ion batteries do burst into flames or explode in daily use.


This is an inherent risk of the technology thermal runaway can happen and it has many times. It is not good enough to blame incompetent manufacturers in china. Where is the history of lead acid battery explosion. Where are the exploding nickel metal hydride batteries where are the exploding nickel cadmium batteries. They don't exist and the Chinese make these batteries. But there are plenty of exploding lithium ion batteries and many were not made in china.


Where are the exploding radios, television sets, can openers, hearing aids, they don't exist, but there are plenty of exploding computers and mobile phones due entirely to the lithium ion battery contained in them breaking down catastrophically under thermal runaway.


Buy the best battery and buy it from a reputable source and the risk is reduced, but think of this, many bike riders are caught out by buying a product for their bike from a reputable supplier and it turns out to have been manufactured in China.


Do we really want to take the risk with a technology that carries such potential for disaster.


My concern is not simply that of a lithium ion battery could set on fire and the rider has to deal with that alone, but if things do go wrong there is a good chance that the rider will be unable to dismount before the lithium ion battery bursts into flames a couple of inches from a rubber fuel line whose breakdown in the fire will be rapid and immediately dump 5 gallons of burning fuel all over the legs of the rider.


Call me on old woman if you want but the technology while generally safe, I use devices with lithium batteries in and take the risk, it is not safe enough in my opinion to use under the seat of a motorbike a couple of inches from a fuel tank full of petrol.


There is a reason they don't allow fuel dumps to be constructed in residential areas, pressurised propane storage is not allowed in built up areas. If something goes wrong people die. Its a risk I dont want to take.

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Hasty generalisation.

Sorry to bring this to your attention old bean but all those battery types can and do explode.


Anything that stores or contains energy in such a fashion has the possibility of failure.


Components of course can also fail - ever see a valve pop in an old radio?


Lithium batteries are perfectly safe if they're not abused. There's a load of scaremongering tosh about them popping but when you examine the cases it's almost always because they've been charged incorrectly or have been damaged.

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I've used lithiums in model aircraft where they are pushed to the limit. The only time they had a problem was when they were either charged incorrectly or damaged in a crash. They can sit for hours before catching fire which is why they need to be respected. But in normal use they are as safe as anything else. My lithium starter pack uses a foolproof charger and is encased in a solid case. I'm happy to carry it round with me with no worries.


The biggest bang I had was when my steel thermos fell onto the terminals of a lead acid battery, that went off rather well!

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I do know that all battery types can explode but the fact that they can explode doesn't mean that they have any likelihood of or history of doing so, there are so few occasions of actual explosion in those other battery types that I cannot find anything published about real world experience of it.


We are not talking about the possibility of explosion in devices that have little evidence of explosions occurring, we are talking about devices that have a history of causing fires and explosion.


I realise the risk is remote the number of Lithium ion batteries in service is immense but it exists and is undeniable.


In risk management you can mitigate the risk, you can accept the risk you can offset the risk or you can ignore the risk. But denying the risk exists has no place in risk management.


Risk assessment is about failure rates and failure rates of Lithium Ion batteries are much greater than any other type. In my mind that is enough to raise a red flag.

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When I did my first aid training exploding lead acid batteries was frequent enough to be an issue we had specific training on. These days most lead acids are instaled with a simple cover over one terminal which has reduced the frequency of problems significantly. Lithium’s are no more dangerous, it’s just that we’re still aware of the initial risk period as people learn not to be stupid with them.


Riding a bike with two gallons of petrol right under your wedding tackle is way more risky than sitting on top of a lithium power pack.

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I do know that all battery types can explode but the fact that they can explode doesn't mean that they have any likelihood of or history of doing so, there are so few occasions of actual explosion in those other battery types that I cannot find anything published about real world experience of it.


We are not talking about the possibility of explosion in devices that have little evidence of explosions occurring, we are talking about devices that have a history of causing fires and explosion.


I realise the risk is remote the number of Lithium ion batteries in service is immense but it exists and is undeniable.


In risk management you can mitigate the risk, you can accept the risk you can offset the risk or you can ignore the risk. But denying the risk exists has no place in risk management.


Risk assessment is about failure rates and failure rates of Lithium Ion batteries are much greater than any other type. In my mind that is enough to raise a red flag.

Lithium batteries are not the issue as such it is the lack of electronic failsafes connected to the batteries that cause the damage .ie overcharging , cut offs .

used to race model vehicles with lipo batteries which in early days had no protection circuits and you had to be very critical in timimg charges and use fire retention charging bags . these days they are protected when constructed by reputable companies but you still see devices come from china really cheap on ebay where the instructions always state .... "Only charge for x time do not allow this to be exceeded .No warranty if overcharged " as they have no cut off.


lead acid batteries ...

i carry the scars from having these explode

1 a bus depot workshop i worked in ..their charging room exploded and mixed in with the brick debris etc was sulphuric acid.


2A jcb battery exploded as i was a few feet away from the vehicle .

acid in hair , face and arms .

Thankfully a tap was within a few feet

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I agree mostly with what you say Tim however the problem is internal failures within the lithium cells and vulnerability to heat buildup and vibration damaging internal parts.


This would not be an issue if failure rates truly were insignificant. The failure rate of lithium batteries is one in 200,000. Given that the annual market for these cells is 700 million, this means that there are 3500 expected failures every year. And the failure commonly results in explosion. It is not surprising then that large numbers of exploding Lithium cells have appeared and have caused failures followed by wholesale recalls and replacement.


It goes further than this though. It is the buildup of heat within the cell that commonly leads to failure, and ruptured internal insulation or loose internal parts significantly increase the risk of failure.


The environment of a mobile phone or a computer or a camera does not expose the Lithium cell to excessive risk of early failure, there is no vibration and heat can easily dissipate, but in a motorbike where the Lithium cell is stored under the seat and subject to heat buildup from a very hot engine close by, and additionally excessive vibration, both these undesirable circumstances in my view add together to make early failure much more likely in this specific use.


We do take risks in this life and it is good to do so, however some risks are folly, for example, I have no objection to anyone smoking, I do however object to someone smoking while filling their vehicle with petrol at the pump.


We should avoid where we can accelerated risk, and for me the use of Lithium Ion batteries under the seat of a motorbike is compounding risk and making disaster more likely. It doesn't matter that the risk is still small the risk exists so I prefer to reduce it by using batteries with less likelihood and history of catastrophic failure under the very circumstances that a biker would intend to use them.


I should add that of all the Lithium Ion powered devices I have owned several of them suffered early failure of the Lithium Ion cell. In every case failure was preceded by heat buildup in the device holding the cell, and as heat sensitivity has been stated as the Achilles heel of Lithium Ion cells, this appears to support the view that storing and using Lithium Ion cells in a location subject to heat is a contributory factor or a cause of early failure.

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