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Had my first crash already . Am i at fault ?


Elcoop
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So like the titlle says iv had my first crash , 3 months into riding . Fortunatley nothing too serious. Bike is wrote off im pretty banged up and off my feet for a few weeks and iv definitley had my moneys worth out of my helmet . Still, nothings broken and il be okay soon enough so ill count my self lucky .


So was it my fault ?


I was on a A road with a single lane in each direction. I was filtering through stationary traffic on the outside of the lane (kirb side ) at about 15 mph . The car that hit me was travelling in the opposite direction . He made a right turn across my lane toward the small raod on my left side . I didnt see him over the cars untill it was too late and the same for him i guess and He hit the right side of me with the front his car . Took me off the bike , wrecked the bike and banged me up pretty bad . Im not sure how fast he was going but he hit me with some force so imagine quicker than he should of been . That being said iv never been hit by a car so its not like i have anything to compare it too



Passers-by phoned for police and ambulance when i was on the floor .speaking to the police later i asked if i was allowed to filter where i was and he said yes . But later on when i asked him who was at fault he said well its going up to the insurance companies because i didnt want to declare an injury to start an investigation but the way he saw it it was 50/50 because i was filtering . Im willing to accept theres more i could of done to avoid it i should of treated the turn like a junction when i seen space in the cars . That being said i would of thought because i was travelling in my lane in the right direction and he came across my lane and hit me. Then surley he is at fault if filtering isnt a problem. I dont know if he just didnt want to deal with it or im just getting carried away because i think hes at fault an after explaining it to my insurance company they think im not at fault.

Edited by Elcoop
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I couldn't comment on fault as i dont know the specific law but you should never filter down the inside as you described. If youre on the outside then you give yourself ths best chance of being seen. Apologies you probably already know that now. Hope the injuries aren't too bad and you can get back on the road soon as.

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Oh dear. Glad you are OK, bikes are easily replaced. First rule of filtering is that you need to be aware of what others are doing at all times. But you know that now. The insurance companies will probably go for 50/50 unless the police think you were riding dangerously, though they will probably not get involved as you "have learnt your lesson". Always difficult at junction but you could/should have expected a vehicle to turn across your path and be prepared to stop. Often hint is gap appearing in cars ahead of you with the cars allowing a space for vehicle to turn across, especially in queue of traffic.

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First of all, I hope you recover quickly (and I'm sorry about the bike). Now that's out of the way, I can be brutally honest :shock:


I'm both a car driver and biker, like many/most on here, I imagine. So from that perspective I'd say two things:


1) If you chose to filter on the nearside of the traffic AND saw a gap in said traffic as you approached the junction on your left, you should have been riding defensively, thereby giving yourself a chance to stop if a hazard materialised.


2) I think an expectation that cars turning right across stationary traffic will stop as the nose of their car starts to edge out beyond the driver's direct line of sight is optimistic, to say the least. Yes, you could argue that they should be anticipating cyclists (not motor bikes) coming up on the inside, but in practice it doesn't happen. We know this, so should allow for it.


My own opinion is that if you get offered settlement on a knock for knock basis, you've done well. I'd also suggest (and I say this as a relatively new rider myself) that you do some reading on defensive riding, because that's your biggest protection in high-traffic density city environments.

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Police will rarely say who is to blame unless it's obvious due to an offence (e.g. Drink, careless, dangerous, etc...) chances are it was a normal unit that attended not traffic who are very few and far between now so only attend the more complex jobs unless they happen to be nearby.


If he had said car driver was at fault or vice versa then that would be quoted to insurance company and it makes everything more difficult if they are wrong and insurance disagrees.


Others already mentioned about perils of filtering on the inside, when I was on biker down course they said that whilst most common accident is a car turning out off a junction into path the most dangerous and often not anticipated is what happened with yourself and a car turning right into a junction.


Hindsight is a bitch and while you could have done more to avoid it I'm glad you're not too badly hurt. Driver should have checked as well though as said they should have been anticipation that a cyclist may have been coming up on the inside.

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Hi sorry to see you been hurt hope not to bad and you recover soon . As for the bump . I'm with you on this .. as a few have said you was on the left filtering near the curb and as the car CROSSED YOUR LANE it is up to him to make sure it's safe to cross NOT YOURS .. as for you on a motorbike so what you can be on a bike .car .even a HOVER board you are in YOUR LANE . If it was 2 lanes and you was in lane one another car was in lane two he crosses your lane hits you .. how is it 50_50 or your fault ... you are in YOUR LANE. He is not ..

So I say he is 100%at fault he should have MADE SURE there was nothing coming before crossing the lane .


Say you was on a push bike he does the same . Is that your fault NO

same as you join a slip road on to a motorway YOU HAVE TO filter in the ones ON the road don't have to let you in or move YOU HAVE TO this is exactly the same your lane it was not his to cross till it was safe to ..


Even if you was on the right side of the road (next to the car drivers side ) and he crosses in front of you still his fault he crosses your lane . If the car to your left flashed him to cross and didn't see you on the left still his fault as the other driver does not answer for you . It's up to the driver who hit you to make sure it's safe to cross .. so it's 100% his fault.. you make sure you tell your insurance comp that you will not take ANY OF THE BLAME its all his . . What if there is a cycle lane on the left and he hit the cyclest is it the cyclest fault ( yes as I hate cyclest and I used to be one )

NO it's the car drivers fault crossing your lane ..

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It's all going down to responsibility and risk, no its not 100% the drivers fault, both Road users have a responsibility to be able to stop, filtering is a risk, that risk increases with your position and speed, junctions are a major hazard and should be treated as such, to presume you can ride straight past one in traffic and be fault free is madness.


As a vulnerable Road user you must look to protect your self, winning a claim is going to be no use if you can't walk again, there is an article some where on the net that gives guidance on the probability of claims in filtering, it goes with there has to be a clear sign of negligence from one and proof that the other was mitigating the chance of an incident, ie if your filtering 30mph faster than the traffic and someone fails to see you the chance of it being your fault increases,


Both users in this instance were using a junction, both failed to see the other, the rest will depend on who could see what, did the driver stop and bike ran into car, was bike going too quick and gave driver little chance.


Do you think the Duke is going to face charges of dangerous driving because he failed to see a whole car, I doubt it ohhh he was dazzled by the sun.


I'm sure the insurance will look into it and have better idea than we do and if you escape knock for knock then great, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

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Maybe I’ve misunderstood but I thought he was travelling along a carriageway on which he had priority. The onus is on the vehicle crossing in to that space.


Could he have done more to prevent that happening yes. Was it his fault no. If the car had remained in its lane or taken care to check the junction was clear of oncoming traffic it (which is the car drivers main responsibility to do as they are the one crossing a lane without priority) it couldn’t have happened.


I feel sorry for the car driver because I just wouldn’t expect a motorcycle to be appear filtering up the kerbside of cars where they couldn’t be seen, you were asking for it but that still doesn’t technically make it your fault as you shouldn’t drive according to what you expect only with what you actually know and can see.

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Maybe I’ve misunderstood but I thought he was travelling along a carriageway on which he had priority. The onus is on the vehicle crossing in to that space.


Could he have done more to prevent that happening yes. Was it his fault no. If the car had remained in its lane or taken care to check the junction was clear of oncoming traffic it (which is the car drivers main responsibility to do as they are the one crossing a lane without priority) it couldn’t have happened.


I feel sorry for the car driver because I just wouldn’t expect a motorcycle to be appear filtering up the kerbside of cars where they couldn’t be seen, you were asking for it but that still doesn’t technically make it your fault as you shouldn’t drive according to what you expect only with what you actually know and can see.

 

Beautifully put , saved me the bother.🙂

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Fault: theirs, they crossed into your lane

Anticipation: a failure on your part here, in future, have more in this situation

Insurance: will want the easy life, the other insurer won't want to settle for the full amount so will argue and your insurer won't argue 100% liability (not worth the additional time and effort on their side)


ie there's a disconnect here between whose to blame, who could have done a bit more to prevent, and what the relevant insurance companies are really willing to do on their customer's behalf.


I really hope you do get better soon and this doesn't knock too much out of you, but remember that if another road user can't see you they simply can't see you, and seeing the car also isn't the same as the driver seeing you. I think there's already been some good advice on signs to look out for, if I'm on two wheels with or without an engine I actually filter on the inside as a last resort. I prefer being to the offside (right) of the queuing traffic.


Also be VERY careful when using bus lanes with minor junctions to your left.

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Hope you mend soon. Filtering on the nearside makes it very hard for you to be seen by a driver turning right across stationary traffic. I'd agree with those who have said it's a case of 50/50.


Learn from it and move on. Always ride anticipating where you're invisible and don't go into that place.


If you filter do so on the offside and double check anywhere near a junction. Cars can be flashed to pull out and not see you coming up the outside.

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I would agree with others here...


Filtering on inside, crossing sideroad, slow moving traffic situation that you need 1000% awareness. List of hazards cars driveways, pushbike, car doors opening, pedestrians among cars,


As for who's fault it is well Highway code can say what it wants the people who decide are insurance companies, good luck...


I got knocked off whilst on my side of the carriageway having stopped for a van that pulled out of side road in front of me. He then side swiped me when other lanne became free pulling me and Pillion down.


Initially it was 100% my fault, then when I protested it became 50/50... FInally Cam footage (mine and another cars, his "was not working") which I sent originally but they refused to watch made it 3rd parties fault 100%...


Took about 8 months of "talks" to get that far... even then they refused to repair the bike properly IMO.


Glad your ok sorry about your bike hope its fixable...


And again good luck insurance companies are a law unto themselves...

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Also worth mentioning is that filtering speed relative to other traffic is kind of important. On a single carriageway a difference of 15mph is pretty brisk going. It doesn't leave much room for the unexpected.


In stationary traffic I'd be under 10mph on a single carriageway road.

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filtering up the inside is too close to wing mirrors for my liking, unless you are doing it to turn left. Watch this and learn:


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MCRider has a vast set of very good motorcycle training videos. No point in being 100% right if you are pushing up the daisys

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As I said and others the bikers has no fault in this bump as the driver crossed in to his lane and hit him . In accordance with the law drivers/riders must be able to stop when the vehicle In front stops this driver didn't he hit the biker drivers fault.

You can't take assumption in to The court of law must be facts . The fact is the driver crossed in to another lane when it was not clear his fault .

other wise if your driving down a motorway and the carbon the middle lane crises in to the left lane and hits a car was the driver in the left lane at fault as he didn't assume the driver in the middle lane was going.to cross in to the left lane no its the drivers fault trying to use a lane that all ready has a vehicle in it .. .


Also you know what they say about assumption is the mother of all feck ups..


So the biker is not at fault 100% car drivers fault. .he should made sure it was clear 1st . He assumed it was clear .. his fault you don't asumme anything you check the check again . As for a the biker .he needs to tell his insurance comp that he is not taken any fault on this all car drivers fault. .

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acording to the papers the police are looking in to charging the duke .as he pulled out in front of the other car .. bit like the biker on this thread the other guy pulled in to his lane when it was in use .mm so should the other car that hut the duke take some of the blame as they didn't anticipate that he was going to pull out as as a car driver needed to make sure she was seen by the duke ?????? No it's all his fault 100% as he went in to a lane that was being used his fault 100% just the same as the driver who hit the biker ..


You can't say its 50 _50 the biker and then say its 100% the dukes fault as both the same pulling in to an lane when a vehicle is all ready using it ..

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> "Still, nothings broken and il be okay soon enough so ill count my self lucky"


Good attitude to have. Best advice I will give is get out as soon as you can again on two wheels and don't brood over it. Time off the bike and over thinking can prevent you getting back out and enjoying the ride. Hope you mend quick pal.


That said, here is my two pence worth:

I would never filter on up the inside (packed motorways excepted). Anyone at a junction waiting to emerge will probably not see you even though you see them. They will be concentrating on the larger vehicles. Anyone turning across the lane (as in your case) will not see you (Remember, if you cannot see them then they cannot see you). Same applies when riding an empty road, if a car is waiting to emerge from a junction get yourself to the outside of your lane where there is more chance of them seeing you (and you don't blend with whatever is on the verge such as trees and hedges).

Filtering up the outside allows you good vision of turning vehicles and many drivers are becoming more aware of bikers doing this so it is more expected than coming up the inside. On the plus side, if you do get stuck whilst filtering up the outside you can always have a chat with the driver next to you :D (every little helps in getting bikers a better reputation among the car loving community :cheers:

I'll stop rambling now, all the best and get out there asap.


Oops forgot to say, I think you're looking at a 50/50 like others have said.

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Accidents like this are treated as 50/50 by the police because both side failed to anticipate the presence of another vehicle. The bike is expected when filtering to anticipate other vehicles will leave or make gaps to let traffic through. The driver is expected to anticipate filtering bikes (pedal and motor) when crossing through the gaps.


The police do that because that is how they were taught and they expect others to do the same. But also there has to be a clearly careless or dangerous act to make a prosecution and the work that requires worthwhile. The police and courts do not have the resources to cope with disputes over fault for what is a relatively minor accident.

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.....

I would never filter on up the inside....

 

It is unusual to do it on a motorbike, but common on a pedal bike. The Highway Code does not advise on where to filter. So the police would not consider it as an issue.

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I won't comment on fault......but never filter down the kerbside of traffic, sooner or later a passenger would swing a door open, someone will suddenly decide to pull over to go to a shop, and numerous other scenarios......many drivers do not check their kerbside mirror before a manouvre.

Anyway, thankfully you weren't badly injured this time.....just think about these points when you get back on the road. :wink:

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The Highway Code does not advise on where to filter. So the police would not consider it as an issue.



Sorry, I wasn't implying it was an issue with the law or highway code. Just mentioning why I personally feel filtering up the outside is safer. I also ride a bicycle and will filter up the inside wherever there aren't cycle lanes, but never with a motorcycle.

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I won't comment on fault......but never filter down the kerbside of traffic, sooner or later a passenger would swing a door open, someone will suddenly decide to pull over to go to a shop, and numerous other scenarios......many drivers do not check their kerbside mirror before a manouvre.

Anyway, thankfully you weren't badly injured this time.....just think about these points when you get back on the road. :wink:

 

Most dont check any mirror before making any change in speed or direction.


You will have a fight with the insurance co. If you have legal protection included get a good bike lawyer ( not one of the crap practice they will send you) and you will have half a chance.


As others have said it is not advisable to filter up the kerb side of stationary or slow moving traffic for lots of reasons. When ever you do filter always treat each and every side road or even drive way with caution even if it on the opposite side of the road. Most drivers don't look properly and if they see half a chance of a gap will take it. If you ride like every other motorist is trying to kill you you will be right at least 90% of the time

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Thanks for all the replies, much appreacited.its good to have alot of opinions . What im more concerned with is whos at fault legalt . There is definitley more i could of done and will be doing to avoid this or similar happening .


Majority of people seem to say it will go 50/50 some saying that the driver is at fault . I feel asif the driver is at fault and thats how i have proceeded with the insurance company. I imagine he will dispute it so we shall see what happens in the end.

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