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Anti wheelie Kawasaki?


Justarn
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Hi all, can anyone explain how the anti wheelie works on newer Kawasaki's. Specifically 2015 zx6r.

From my understanding across the three levels of traction control, level 3 is rain and zero wheelie mode, level 1and 2 allows the front to come up as long as it's not violent.

Does this system work as a safety net? Will it cut power if it goes past say 11 o'clock?

It comes up very easily in the first two gears but level 3 is too intrusive.

I've been using level 1 the least intrusive.

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It more than likely works off the abs sensors and compares wheel speeds with one another


It could have a tilt switch of some sort too!

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Yeah it does work of the wheels, it's got abs rings front and back but I'm assuming to recognize violent/accidental wheelies which apparently it can it must have a tilt switch surely?

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The speed sensor rings on a modern motorcycle send their data, in the most modern bikes 3 ways.


Speedo.

ABS

Traction control. (Honda call it Torque control)


Traction control is effectively ABS in reverse.. Kinda..


(ABS releases the brake pressure for however long is necessary. Traction control cuts the engine power.)


It operates at millisecond level speeds.(just as ABS does) so fast there is no need for a tilt switch. The instant wheelspin starts to occur its over. dependent on the Level of intervention you have it set at and mostly.. you might not even be aware that it came on. its so fast.


Traction control is always optional.. or at least should be. there is no legal requirement. so, if you don't like the way it interferes. Turn it off.


The 'anti wheelie' part is just a side effect of traction control. but again, if you want to wheelie then just turn it off.

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It's will have lean sensors/gyros to sense the angle the bike is at and measure the acceleration in all directions.

It will take the data, do some clever calculations, and if it decides you're going to flip it over it will limit the power by cutting the spark and/or fuel.

Modern bikes are filled with all kinds of sensors..

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It's will have lean sensors/gyros to sense the angle the bike is at and measure the acceleration in all directions.

 

That assumes the bike has cornering ABS.


My bike does not.. but it does have lean angle sensors which are specifically designed to prevent the bike changing gear when leant over in a bend.


The manual version does not have these sensors.

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My zx6r doesn't have abs, it was a 1k option on the 2013 on model.

The wheelie control on this bike is built into the 3 level traction control like I say, it allows zero wheelies in level 3 and some in 1+2.

I'm more curious if it will intervene before it flips right over? It almost seemed to cut/refrain power with the wheel at 930 o clock. Wondered if I was mistakenly assuming that it has a specific height where the ktrc says that's enough.

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My zx6r doesn't have abs, it was a 1k option on the 2013 on model.

The wheelie control on this bike is built into the 3 level traction control like I say, it allows zero wheelies in level 3 and some in 1+2.

I'm more curious if it will intervene before it flips right over? It almost seemed to cut/refrain power with the wheel at 930 o clock. Wondered if I was mistakenly assuming that it has a specific height where the ktrc says that's enough.

 

Although it doesn't have ABS it still has what are erroneously called ABS rings.


or more correctly called speed sensor rings.. with the usual hall sensor. but without the 'plumbing' and other (expensive) gadgetry that forms a full ABS system.


data from the hall sensors goes to the ECU and from there is split between the Speedo and software that fiddles with the engine.. usually by cutting power when wheel spin is detected. However it has a side effect. it measures and compares the speed of rotation of the front and rear wheel. and its primary focus is on matching these. if the rear wheel is spinning faster than the front then it will cut power momentarily until they match again. when the front wheel goes in the air, the same thing happens. the rear wheel spins faster than the front. cuts power and the wheel drops. the various levels have a greater or lesser effect on this.


It doesn't 'know' you are performing a wheelie.. it 'thinks' you are having a bad wheel-spin. its all about "wheel-spin"


In theory on normal roads in good conditions.. like a warm sunny, dry day. you should not need any TC at all. It only becomes advantageous when the conditions deteriorate and effectively mean you dont need to be quite so careful with accelleration in the 'wet' for example. And they give various levels so you can match the way it interferes, with your riding style and road conditions and end up with the ideal (for you) "condition" for the bike.

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I'm not very familiar with the Traction Control and Anti Wheelie systems on Kawasakis, are they seperate or all in one like the early S1000RR was with Rain,Sport,Race mode etc?.


On my bike they're sepearate, with 8 different settings for each, so you could have traction control set at very intrusive at level 8, and anti wheelie very low at 1 or 2, then you have seperate settings for ABS too, it's a bit confusing to be honest!, I tend to run TC at level 4 on the road and anti wheelie at 2, the Aprilia system was the same, you could adjust them seperately.

Also like Joe said the systems are pretty advanced with gyroscopes, lean sensors etc.

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I'm not very familiar with the Traction Control and Anti Wheelie systems on Kawasakis, are they seperate or all in one like the early S1000RR was with Rain,Sport,Race mode etc?.


On my bike they're sepearate, with 8 different settings for each, so you could have traction control set at very intrusive at level 8, and anti wheelie very low at 1 or 2, then you have seperate settings for ABS too, it's a bit confusing to be honest!, I tend to run TC at level 4 on the road and anti wheelie at 2, the Aprilia system was the same, you could adjust them seperately.

Also like Joe said the systems are pretty advanced with gyroscopes, lean sensors etc.

They are all in one so, 3 rain forget it. 1-2 allow wheelies if they aren't violent.

I'm more curious if it will cut power if you do.a gentle one but right off the back lmao.

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I'm not very familiar with the Traction Control and Anti Wheelie systems on Kawasakis, are they seperate or all in one like the early S1000RR was with Rain,Sport,Race mode etc?.

 

The anti wheelie description for the Kawasaki the OP owns is as Ive described.. a side effect of the Traction control.. called Kawasaki TRaction Control or KTRC. nowhere near as sophsiticated as what you have on your bike. which itself is an enhanced form of Traction Control and about controlled wheelies.


anyway.. this is the description of the 'anti wheelie' on the 2015 Kwak.


 

KTRC is an intelligent system that calculates the slip level of the rear wheel (wheelspin) during acceleration and controls the optimum slip ratio to suit the riding conditions. KTRC can contribute to a stable ride not only for sports riding but also when riding on a rough or slippery road surface.

KTRC is designed for use on public roads. KTRC cannot respond to ev- ery condition. Acceleration may be de- layed under certain conditions.


If a wheelie occurs due to excessive acceleration, KTRC will control the engine output to make the front wheel contact the road surface.

 

The system on the Panigale and others will have as mentioned further sensors and software which allows the front wheel to leave the ground in a controlled manner. or rather, with an incremental decrease of control. as you get 'sportier'.


so on the Panigale you have traction control that is not entirely dependent on matching wheel speed at the front and rear... which is very very clever.

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Just found this write up on the zx10r so I'm guessing it's a similar system...


There isn't an anti-wheelie as such, however the system is capable of determining the rate at which the front wheel is lifting and if it's progressive, it'll allow it, if not, it'll cut it back. So you can manage to drive hard out of a corner with the front wheel just in the air. Don't expect to pull start-finish straight 12 o'clock wheelies though.

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I'm not very familiar with the Traction Control and Anti Wheelie systems on Kawasakis, are they seperate or all in one like the early S1000RR was with Rain,Sport,Race mode etc?.

 

The anti wheelie description for the Kawasaki the OP owns is as Ive described.. a side effect of the Traction control.. called Kawasaki TRaction Control or KTRC. nowhere near as sophsiticated as what you have on your bike. which itself is an enhanced form of Traction Control and about controlled wheelies.


anyway.. this is the description of the 'anti wheelie' on the 2015 Kwak.


 

KTRC is an intelligent system that calculates the slip level of the rear wheel (wheelspin) during acceleration and controls the optimum slip ratio to suit the riding conditions. KTRC can contribute to a stable ride not only for sports riding but also when riding on a rough or slippery road surface.

KTRC is designed for use on public roads. KTRC cannot respond to ev- ery condition. Acceleration may be de- layed under certain conditions.


If a wheelie occurs due to excessive acceleration, KTRC will control the engine output to make the front wheel contact the road surface.

 

The system on the Panigale and others will have as mentioned further sensors and software which allows the front wheel to leave the ground in a controlled manner. or rather, with an incremental decrease of control. as you get 'sportier'.


so on the Panigale you have traction control that is not entirely dependent on matching wheel speed at the front and rear... which is very very clever.

 

Yeah, the Kwak system reads like it acts in a very similar way to the system that was on an early S1000RR I had, which was a bit disconcerting at times as if you accelerated hard and the wheel came up it would shut power and slam the front down only for it to come up again and do the same, having it on it’s least intrusive setting helped for sure but didn’t stop that happening completely, the system on the Panigale feels very different and far smoother, in that the TC and anti wheelie systems are separated and if you accelerated hard with anti wheelie at a high setting you won’t feel it cutting power and it won’t start to wheelie, it will just accelerate as fast as is possible without the front coming up, having it on a lower setting allows controlled lift under acceleration, like you say it is a very clever system, however the KTRC system like the one on the BMW is very good, I imagine it’s latest incarnation would be more advanced also.

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Thanks guys, I think we've got a little useful info out of this thread at least. I think it will stop me flipping it if I totally f'd it up which is the main thing. I didn't realise how easy it would lift tbh, took alot more effort on the superduke 990 and 5jj r1.

I may need to count the teeth on the sprockets, who knows what the previous owner done... I like it tho:-)

I still don't quite understand how it relates wheelies and the front wheel slowing it that scenario to the fact it would be spinning up massively If level...

Its a great system, it doesn't slam the front down when it cuts power, it brings it down like butter after letting the front wheel float along 12" of the ground for several seconds.

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Thanks guys, I think we've got a little useful info out of this thread at least. I think it will stop me flipping it if I totally f'd it up which is the main thing. I didn't realise how easy it would lift tbh, took alot more effort on the superduke 990 and 5jj r1.

I may need to count the teeth on the sprockets, who knows what the previous owner done... I like it tho:-)

I still don't quite understand how it relates wheelies and the front wheel slowing it that scenario to the fact it would be spinning up massively If level...

Its a great system, it doesn't slam the front down when it cuts power, it brings it down like butter after letting the front wheel float along 12" of the ground for several seconds.

It won't be done solely from wheel speed. Like I said before, it will have accelerometers/gyros/lean angle sensors or some other electronic trickery that detects the rapidly rising front wheel and turns the power down to limit the wheelies.

You can't do that off wheel speed alone.

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