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Bought used bike from garage, advice needed


elwon20
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Hi, I'm a first-time poster, I signed up for some advice/perspective so please forgive my diving right in on my first post.


I'm in the uk and recently bought a CBR600RR from a dealer some miles away from me.


It had no fairing protection, having done the job several times before, I bought some sliders in advance of delivery.


Upon delivery I took the bike out for a ride to make sure everything was as it should be, all was excellent.


The bike is for the Mrs, so I took her to a nearby car park so she could get comfortable with it, having never ridden a supersport bike before. We were out for less than an hour. On the way home, just down the road from the house, the bike cut out. Refused to start just turned over.


We walked it back home. I checked it over, it's a code 18 problem with the cam pulse sensor... annoying but no problem we'll get the garage to pick it up, fix it and bring it back. At the end of the day sometimes these things just happen. I emailed the garage of course they are closed for the Christmas period so didn't expect a response any time soon. It was here I made my mistake.


I figured while the bike was off the road over the Christmas period. I could do some work on it, as it's too tall for the Mrs it needed lowering and it needed sliders.


I took off the fairings, cut the holes and fit the left slider fine. When it came to undoing the right engine mount bolt it was very stiff even after 'cracking the seal'. After around 1.5 full turns there was a large 'crack', the engine mount had sheared into several pieces. Upon inspection, the engine mount bolt was very obviously put in cross-threaded by someone previous: https://imgur.com/a/5VMoPRw




I now have a bike with a 30-day warranty, that doesn't start, and has a missing engine mount. I've no doubt the garage will fix the 'not starting' issue under warranty, but I have a feeling they are going to say "You sheared the engine mount, your problem".




I realise now when the bike broke down I shouldn't have done any work on it, however, this would have happened at some point regardless. Anyone any ideas where I stand legally on this?


Many thanks

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Legally I have no idea but I'd contact the dealer and explain honestly what's happened and ask them to look at the cam sensor under warranty and fix the engine mount for you.

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really depends on garage , they could say you've obviously been messing about with bike, you've caused the problem,

not saying this about you , but joe public will lie through their teeth to get problems they've caused fixed for nothing.

also look on your invoice in T & C's , it may say on there its down to you to get bike back to them in event of breakdown, if it does not say this then they are obliged to come get it.


if you bought it with out physically going to their premises, you got a few more rights, but you busting mounting could throw a spanner in the works.

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With a 30 day warranty I'd suspect that's going to be limited. You'd be responsible for getting the bike back to them or pay for them to collect it.


They ought to fix the cam sensor since clearly it failed early so that's down to fit for purpose.


But repairing the engine mount will be down to you since you were doing the work on it. As Saida above it will depend on the dealer and how well they know you.

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Thanks for the feedback all. I neglected to mention the front right fork seal is also leaking.


The bike was sold remotely/unseen so that is to my advantage.


So I've spoken with them honestly, and included the statement "The Mrs has fallen in love with the bike regardless of the issues, and it was her Christmas present, so we really do not want to cancel the order!" to let them know I'm aware i'm within my 14 day cancellation period (which i'm sure they'd dispute should I attempt this).


They've gotten back to me and said they will fix the leaky seal and the sensor under warranty, but believe the mounting bolt was overly corroded and not due to being cross-threaded and so will not accept liability.


Ultimately I backed down and said I would front the cost for the mounting repair if they would repair the seal and the sensor and front half the costs for transportation.


So it'll cost me a total of £100 for transportation to from their garage again and I'll have to get someone to weld the mounting point myself. Just hope I can find someone who can do it without removing the engine from the bike because that's going to cost a ton in labour.


Anyone know of anyone or can recommend anyone who could maybe fix the mounting? Preferably in the west midlands but the bike should be rideable so anywhere really.


Thanks

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Guest Richzx6r

I wouldn't be riding it with a broken engine mount as it could be a stressed member of the bikes rigidity and could cause handling problems and or problems with the engine and chain alignment

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Thanks for the feedback all. I neglected to mention the front right fork seal is also leaking.


The bike was sold remotely/unseen so that is to my advantage.


So I've spoken with them honestly, and included the statement "The Mrs has fallen in love with the bike regardless of the issues, and it was her Christmas present, so we really do not want to cancel the order!" to let them know I'm aware i'm within my 14 day cancellation period (which i'm sure they'd dispute should I attempt this).


They've gotten back to me and said they will fix the leaky seal and the sensor under warranty, but believe the mounting bolt was overly corroded and not due to being cross-threaded and so will not accept liability.


Ultimately I backed down and said I would front the cost for the mounting repair if they would repair the seal and the sensor and front half the costs for transportation.


So it'll cost me a total of £100 for transportation to from their garage again and I'll have to get someone to weld the mounting point myself. Just hope I can find someone who can do it without removing the engine from the bike because that's going to cost a ton in labour.


Anyone know of anyone or can recommend anyone who could maybe fix the mounting? Preferably in the west midlands but the bike should be rideable so anywhere really.


Thanks


Where in the west mids are you?

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I'm no expert on alloy welding but it's fairly obvious that this mounting will have to be built up with weld and then drilled and possibly tapped afterwards . I know that when I had some lugs on a fork leg repaired in this way the fork seal was toast due to the very high temperatures involved and the extent to which alloy conducts heat . So I would be a bit concerned that if this job was done in situ there might be some damage to any seals or gaskets and even the possibility of the engine oil catching fire . Hopefully you will be able to find a specialist who will be able to give you good advice in this matter but there is a real possibility that the engine will have to be dismantled before the work can be carried out . Hope it all works out for the best .

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Looking again at the pictures and what puzzles me is that the bolt has a plain shoulder on it but it is supposed to go all the way into a threaded hole . Or am I looking at it the wrong way ?

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I'd be looking over the bike for any signs of accident damage that may have cracked the mount.

I would be surprised a cross threaded bolt would shear the mount off like that.

Was there any hpi check done on it or any history?

Signs of track day abuse?

If there are signs of an accident you might have a case with the dealer, if not I'm afraid its probably your tough luck.


I don't think any reputable welder will try to repair it in situ as they will need good access, someone might try and snot it on but it will not be a good repair.

They could end up damaging the engine and frame with the heat involved.

I have used a company called EMP welding near Portsmouth, they do laser welding.Very little heat or distortion, the weld is very small compared to tig .

http://www.e-m-p.biz/laser-welding-2/

Obviously would need the engine removing.

If successful I'd helicoil the thread back in.


Did consider suggesting another engine or crankcase but they seem to start at £500.

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Hi all, thanks for all the replies, sorry about the delay in response I've been on holiday.


I'm in the Shropshire area, but happy to travel to find someone to fix it.


The bike is HPI clear, no obvious signs of ever being dropped. I'm almost certain there were no cracks in the mount beforehand.


At this point any repair is better than no repair. But it appears most here are right, anyone I speak to not only wants the engine out of the frame, but then stripped down. At which point, may as well just stick the internals in a new casing no?


I've had a couple of people provide estimates of around the £900-£1100 mark, which is just way out of my budget right now unfortunately. If I had that kind of budget I would have bought a more expensive bike in the first place :oops:


The bike is currently at the dealer I bought it from where they are repairing the leaky fork seal and the not starting issue. I'd really like to have it booked in somewhere to get this repair sorted so I can drop it off with them as soon as it comes back from the garage. That way I can get it on the road asap. An off the road bike is kind of a shitty christmas present for the Mrs :crybaby:

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Looking again at the pictures and what puzzles me is that the bolt has a plain shoulder on it but it is supposed to go all the way into a threaded hole . Or am I looking at it the wrong way ?

 

The plain shoulder goes through the frame, the threaded bit goes into the shattered engine block mounting point. Does that make sense?

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Looking again at the pictures and what puzzles me is that the bolt has a plain shoulder on it but it is supposed to go all the way into a threaded hole . Or am I looking at it the wrong way ?

 

The plain shoulder goes through the frame, the threaded bit goes into the shattered engine block mounting point. Does that make sense?

 

Ok , I get it now . This bike has had a knock I reckon .

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I can get a new crankcase on eBay for £200 But I imagine stripping the parts out of the current case and putting them in a new case would cost more than just replacing the engine with a used one, and selling the current one as damaged. What does everyone reckon?


All of this engine work is beyond my ability. I can do basic maintenance such as oil/filters/plugs, replace chain, replace clutch etc. I've removed an engine from a bike before. I've never put one back in again, and the only engine i've ever cracked open was a top end rebuild on an RS125, and that didn't go particularly well.

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It's of little use or comfort but where two different metals are in contact you get corrosion due to the different atomic composition of the metals. It's particularly common in boats but even alloy wheels will stick to a steel hub and take a heck of a beating to come off.


I reckon the bolt had simply seized into the alloy housing because they fail to fit any form of corrosion inhibitor when they assemble bikes.


Sorry, I don't know any cheap way of fixing this.

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I've had a good look around the net and I'm sorry to say that I can't find any cheap solutions to fix this . There are some complete engines at fairly hefty prices and a few bottom ends but they are in America . I don't know enough about CBRs to know what other models engines will go in the RR frame . Good luck.

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If your are not able to do any of the spannering yourself with engine swaps,repairs or rebuilds then any option is going to be expensive.

Cut your losses,stick the whole bike on ebay as spares or repair for a reasonable reserve, declaring the problem and see where the market is.

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I appreciate everyone looking into this for me, advice given and time spent trying to find solutions. Thanks all.


I can't justify selling the bike unless it's going to cost me more than £1k total to get it fixed... The bike is ideal for the Mrs in every way (besides the issues). And there's already a significant amount spent. Absolute worst case, I guess I'll just have to sell her old bike sooner than I wanted (was waiting for spring) and use some funds from that.


After contacting a LOT of people, a guy at my local Honda centre put me in touch with a local self-employed mechanic/motorcycle dealer friend of his who knows a very good welder.


He's contacting the welder for me with pictures to see if he will be able to do it with the engine in the frame. If not he says he can remove the engine from the frame, transport the engine to the welder and put the engine back in the frame at an estimate of about 5-6hrs labour at a very reasonable £36/hr plus an estimate of around £100 for the welding work.


So I'm looking at around £400 as a high-end estimate at this point... painful, but next to the £1000+ estimates i've been getting, a hell of an improvement! :cheers:


I was going to put new plastics on it for the Mrs anyway because she wanted it in orange and black X-Ray, so I'll just have to delay the new plastics in favour of actually getting it working. In the meantime it's still at the place I bought it from with no given estimate for when it will be returned :roll: Fingers crossed for me please all!

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Going to keep this updated mostly for the benefit of Google searchers:


Garage fixed broken fork seal and cam pulse generator. They paid the brunt of transport but charged me £100. It's back now and fixed.


With regards to the engine mount:

A Honda Garage have said categorically "do not ride it in that condition". Which seems a bit overkill to me, I would have thought these things to be over-engineered to quite a degree.

I've read about stunters breaking off both their engine mounts and still continuing to stunt just fine. But that's a bit the other extreme and like it's asking for trouble to me.

So I've ridden the bike gently for 2 miles to ensure the repairs are all good before the engine mount gets fixed.


It's booked in to have the engine mount fixed with a local guy and his welder friend on Tuesday. Estimated time about a 1-week turnaround.


Estimated cost: 5hrs Labour @ £36(inc vat) + £38.50 (coolant) + £125 (welding) = £343.5


Of course, something is likely to go wrong and increase the price, but we'll see. If it can be done within budget then I'll still have gained a 2011 CBR600RR ABS and valve clearance adjustment for < £3500. So not complaining.

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