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Do you think the law should change to tackle thieves and idiots?


maxrpg
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Hi,


I'm sick and tired of young idiots riding scooters and bikes around like complete idiots and all these bike thefts. Most of the idiots are on scooters with L plates, saw one almost knock a toddler over as he crossed the road with his mum, I gave him a piece of my mind ...he gave me a piece of his in the form of a finger.


But should rules/law change to add additional requirements for learner riders?


I was thinking force ALL learner riders to not only display L plates but also require that they wear a full yellow hi-viz vest at all times while riding. This would not only annoy the chavs and probably stop most of them riding around like lunatics because they don't want to look stupid in front of their mates by having to wear a vest and make thieves easier for the police to spot but also make law abiding learners more visible on the roads and make them safer. Not wearing a vest? get pulled over.


Why isn't there a better way to identify if the person riding the bike has a CBT/Licence and is the owner of the bike. Obviously this is done in the form of police doing random stops etc but if they see a bike/scooter going down the road they're looking at and checking the bike not the rider. Police use ANPR to check if a bike is MOT'd, Insured and Taxed but what if you could check the rider as well. This is probably a stupid idea but what if all riders had "licence plates" as well as the vehicle, more of an ID code. Possibly a short unique alphanumeric rider code displayed on the back of their helmet and the code is registered with the licence plate to identify that the person riding the bike is the legal owner, a sort of 2-facto authentication check.


It's too easy for thieves to take bikes/scooters even if you lock it up like fort know if a thief want's to take the bike they will take the bike. A thief walks up to a bike wearing full riding gear and carrying a helmet and unless the owner or someone who knows the owner is nearby then the rest of the public wouldn't look twice, he's wearing all the gear so why wouldn't they assume its their bike as he covertly breaks the lock and rides off. The thief can pass several police cars as he rides away but the only checks done are on the bike, which has valid insurance/mot and tax so the police ignore it unaware that he's not the owner because it hasn't yet been reported stolen. But if there was a way to identify the rider like what I said above then the police would have gone "Hang on, the riders code doesn't match. Let's pull him over and have a chat." instead of just ignoring it.


These are probably silly ideas but I just feel that something needs to change because I feel that bike/scooter riders are getting a bad reputation because of the idiots and thieves.


Any thoughts? - what do you think could be done to tackle it?

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Some interesting ideas Max.

A few obvious flaws such as every crash helmet requiring registration number, ownership not necessarily same as entitlement to ride.

I am sure the big brother argument will be along soon and someone will point out you need cops out on the road to see the offenders in the first place.

Overall I am not sure what the answer is but looking forward to hearing what some people think.

Cheers

Ian

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Don't worry , as soon as Saint Boris recruits 20,000 more Police there will be a big friendly Bobby on every street corner . These cheeky monkeys wouldn't dare misbehave if they thought PC Plod would tell their parents . 😂

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Some interesting ideas Max.

A few obvious flaws such as every crash helmet requiring registration number, ownership not necessarily same as entitlement to ride.

I am sure the big brother argument will be along soon and someone will point out you need cops out on the road to see the offenders in the first place.

Overall I am not sure what the answer is but looking forward to hearing what some people think.

Cheers

Ian

 

My idea around the helmet code is just to have another way of identifying the rider. Police can check if a bike is all insured, mot'd and taxed but the thief could happily ride around all day long because it will probably be ignored by the police until its been reported stolen. Lets say when you register your bike with DVLA they send you out a sticker with a unique rider code on it that you stick to the back of your helmet, when the police do their checks it will show insurance, mot, tax and rider code if the rider code doesn't match then that person should not be riding that bike. I'm sure they'll be some thieves out there that would but most don't steal helmets or be bothered to carry around a printing machine to duplicate a riders helmet code before they steal the bike.


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I like the principle [mention]maxrpg[/mention] but would be hard to impliment if you hired a bike or had legal permission to use someone else's bike, or even rode multiple bikes like takeaway deliveries, but it could be done some how i'm sure :thumb:

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Guest Richzx6r

I think there are adequate rules in place but insufficient enforcers and monitors to monitor and enforce.

 

Surely its monitors to enforce and enforcers to monitor 8-)

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Hi,

All very good in principle but your thinking from a law abiding citizens view point.


The scum who steal bikes couldn't care less if their seen and subsequently chased by the police. They know they can 99% of the time out ride the police car, loose him through a cutting or park or if the chase becomes too dangerous they know the police will call it off. Not for one minute will the scum pull over for the police just because they flashed their blue lights at them.


Every day riding through Grimsby i see mopeds 3 up and no helmets. These kids/ teenagers/ adults simply don't care. IF (Big bloody if) caught they get a slapped wrist and out again to steal someone else pride and joy.


What needs to change is the mentality of these people...But that is never going to happen. They have and never will have respect for themselves anyone else or anyone else property. And they certainly have no respect for the law.


My personal opinion is the police need more power,more resources and sentences need to be tougher. Knock them off the bike if they ride off. So what if they don't have a helmet. They made their choices so must face the consequences.


Unfortunately the countries far too liberal with far too many do gooders. That nasty police man knocked him off he wasn't hurting anyone. They had a difficult upbringing. Their a Love-able rogue (My personal favourite).


Cheers,

IM.

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.....


My personal opinion is the police need more power,more resources and sentences need to be tougher. Knock them off the bike if they ride off. So what if they don't have a helmet. They made their choices so must face the consequences.


Unfortunately the countries far too liberal with far too many do gooders. That nasty police man knocked him off he wasn't hurting anyone. They had a difficult upbringing. Their a Love-able rogue (My personal favourite).


Cheers,

IM.

 

I completely agree with this. I read a story a while back about the police ramming a prolific thief off a stolen scooter and after doing his best superman impersonation flying through the air he landed on the road and died. It really upset me seeing the mess all over the road, I cried, I was so upset I almost set up a gofundme page. It was a sad and tragic loss seeing that poor scooter in pieces all over the road I wanted to help with the cost of repairs. :angel12:

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.....


My personal opinion is the police need more power,more resources and sentences need to be tougher. Knock them off the bike if they ride off. So what if they don't have a helmet. They made their choices so must face the consequences.


Unfortunately the countries far too liberal with far too many do gooders. That nasty police man knocked him off he wasn't hurting anyone. They had a difficult upbringing. Their a Love-able rogue (My personal favourite).


Cheers,

IM.

 

I completely agree with this. I read a story a while back about the police ramming a prolific thief off a stolen scooter and after doing his best superman impersonation flying through the air he landed on the road and died. It really upset me seeing the mess all over the road, I cried, I was so upset I almost set up a gofundme page. It was a sad and tragic loss seeing that poor scooter in pieces all over the road I wanted to help with the cost of repairs. :angel12:

 


They shpuld have run him over a few times, then got his family to scrape up the remains :twisted:

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Guest Richzx6r

Personally I think this country should be abit more like America as in we should be able to protect our property not get some scrote try and rob you and your in the wrong for bashing him up abit even though common sense would suggest the bashing wouldn't have happened had the sxrote not been trying to rob you.....makes my piss boil

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Your collective responses are exactly what I expected !

In general we are law abiding people fed up with what the scum in society are getting away with and we are policed by an organisation that has had it`s resources cut to the bone and ridiculous targets set by central government which means the road users are treated like a cash cow!

Please don't get me started on the AA who used to warn their members of upcoming speed traps and now make money running speed awareness courses ! Cnuts!

Cheers and rant over !

Ian

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Firstly I'm pretty new here, so I'm hesitant to throw out a vocal alternative view for fear of giving off a poor first impression.


But in this case, I sort of feel I have to, so please excuse the incoming rant!!!


Giving the police powers to knock people off of motorcycles is too much power for the police to have, you're essentially giving them the power of manslaughter. Now do these little feckers stealing bikes deserve it? In many cases,... perhaps... Is it a power the police should have? Absolutely not.


It assumes that the police are always correct, and more importantly always hold the best intentions. Which certainly isn't the case.


Here's an extremely contrived but perfectly possible example. You are called at work to say your daughter has been in a serious accident is in intensive care and you need to get the hospital as soon as possible. You took your bike to work. You nail it to the hospital and the police blue light you. You couldn't care less, you are stopping for no one, you will explain when you get there. The police chase you. Just as you get to the turning for the hospital you slow down to take a right turn at the island, the police car rams you off your bike and you are left dead, paralysed, unable to work or a multitude of other very possible scenarios. But hey, at least you got rammed outside of a hospital!


Should you have stopped when you saw the blues? Probably. Would you have stopped? I probably wouldn't.


Even putting the very contrived example to one side. All ramming thieves will do is cost the taxpayer a fortune in NHS bills, put bikers insurance up even higher, and get bikers there stolen bikes back in totalled condition, which results in the same insurance payout they'd have gotten anyway. It wont deter bike thieves,... they will just adapt and steal something else. Likely it will encourage them to steal faster bikes instead of mopeds, dirtbikes and 125's.


I hate all this bike theft crap myself but giving the police the power to kill us is not the answer!

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right ... firstly if your get a copper with a blue light behind and your on your scooter or bike and you know they can knock you off then you stop , what ever your reason for driving like a twat is or you'll be next to your daughter in intensive car.

as for coppers being allowed to knock em off , to right, they should be allowed to put the boot in to before they nick em or chuck em in the ambulance.

its snowflake attitudes that is the problem with this country.

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its snowflake attitudes that is the problem with this country.

 

That might be the problem now, but give coppers the power to commit manslaughter and there will be many other problems. They can't help but abuse the powers they already have.

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its snowflake attitudes that is the problem with this country.

 

That might be the problem now, but give coppers the power to commit manslaughter and there will be many other problems. They can't help but abuse the powers they already have.

 


what if the coppers was chasing a scooter retard and they had several chances to knock em off but wasn't allowed in case they hurt em... and the scooter went round the next corner and ran into your daughter and put her in intensive care.... just sayin.

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That might be the problem now, but give coppers the power to commit manslaughter and there will be many other problems. They can't help but abuse the powers they already have.

 

I think that's a little bit unfair. Not all coppers abuse their position of power. Wherever there is a position of power there is always going to be those who abuse it. Take your example of driving away from a blue light. Is that not an abuse of a power? By riding off could your actions not also result in your own or someone elses death?

 

right ... firstly if your get a copper with a blue light behind and your on your scooter or bike and you know they can knock you off then you stop , what ever your reason for driving like a twat is or you'll be next to your daughter in intensive car.

as for coppers being allowed to knock em off , to right, they should be allowed to put the boot in to before they nick em or chuck em in the ambulance.

its snowflake attitudes that is the problem with this country.

Completely agree. We've become a nation of snowflakes and we're starting to reap what we've sown.

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In the times of Benito Mussolini and fascists in Italy, mafia was almost completely disappeared. And not only the mafia but criminal as well.

Now question is can we benefit from people and system like that.

Country needs education, it is long and painful process to minimise chavism (don’t know if that is the word), and criminal.


We don’t need to look over the ocean (Usa), there is no nothing good for us. We should look east to Sweden, Denmark, Germany.


Or we have to learn to live with what we got.

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I think that's a little bit unfair. Not all coppers abuse their position of power. Wherever there is a position of power there is always going to be those who abuse it. Take your example of driving away from a blue light. Is that not an abuse of a power? By riding off could your actions not also result in your own or someone elses death?

 

 

Sorry, to be clear I didn't intend to imply all coppers abuse their power. Just that it's inevitable that some will and do.


With regards to my driving away from a blue light in that hypothetical situation, it isn't an abuse of power because i'd likely do it regardless of what vehicle I was in, so power isn't a factor.

And yes absolutely my actions could result in my own or someone else's death, but that would be a risk that I were taking and those would be my consequences to bare, all of which would be weighed up in the moment.


When you give the police the power to knock people off of motorcycles, you are essentially removing those consequences from the officer and placing them on the state, effectively altering the officers' judgment in the moment.


When you know you are less likely to be held responsible for the consequences of your actions, you are far more likely to be wreckless in your decisions.

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I think that's a little bit unfair. Not all coppers abuse their position of power. Wherever there is a position of power there is always going to be those who abuse it. Take your example of driving away from a blue light. Is that not an abuse of a power? By riding off could your actions not also result in your own or someone elses death?

 

 

Sorry, to be clear I didn't intend to imply all coppers abuse their power. Just that it's inevitable that some will and do.


With regards to my driving away from a blue light in that hypothetical situation, it isn't an abuse of power because i'd likely do it regardless of what vehicle I was in, so power isn't a factor.

And yes absolutely my actions could result in my own or someone else's death, but that would be a risk that I were taking and those would be my consequences to bare, all of which would be weighed up in the moment.


When you give the police the power to knock people off of motorcycles, you are essentially removing those consequences from the officer and placing them on the state, effectively altering the officers' judgment in the moment.


When you know you are less likely to be held responsible for the consequences of your actions, you are far more likely to be wreckless in your decisions.

 

So what you're saying is that people should be left to ride/drive however they want without being stopped and if the means they kill some poor innocent person then they have to face the consequences?


I'm sorry but as the saying goes prevention is better than the cure!


If someone fails to stop on a stolen bike then they must be stopped before innocent people are hurt or killed! these people destroy lives and not just the person they hit!


Why should these thieving scum be allowed to get away with it?

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I'm sorry but as the saying goes prevention is better than the cure!

 

I disagree with that statement when used in such a blanket manner. Ramming bikes off of the road won't prevent anything. And it can easily be used to support absurdly wild statements such as "We should castrate all mentally ill people to stop them from reproducing".




Besides, No that's not what I'm saying at all.


People should be stopped. And if they refuse to stop, forcibly stopping them safely if necessary should absolutely be an option if they pose a significant risk to others around them.

Otherwise, let them go. It's not like they will not have to deal with the consequences later. And the increased risk to others is by chasing them in an attempt to find an opportunity to force them off the road is often not worth it. It's the police' job to continually assess these factors and decide whether or not to continue the chase, attempt a forced stop, or call off the chase and catch them another way.


However, there is no way to safely forcibly stop a motorcycle. So let them, go and catch them later, and let them deal with the consequences when they are caught safely. You can easily outrun a police car, you can't easily outrun the law.


Which is exactly what happens now (mostly). Less risk to the public, less risk to the officers, less risk to the rider, less risk to the bike, lower insurance for all.


Ramming bikes off the road will only result in good guys getting punished, bad guys adjusting their tactics and traffic police having power over life and death. None of those are good results.

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Ramming bikes off the road will only result in good guys getting punished, bad guys adjusting their tactics and traffic police having power over life and death. None of those are good results.

 

Eh?? :scratch:


Good guys getting punished if they ram them off the road? if they are a good guy then they won't be giving the police an option to ram them off the road!


You do realise that this is a last resort don't you? not just oh there's a good guy lets ram him :roll:


as for just letting them go why do you think the world is in the state it is now? its by letting people get away with it and too many do gooders in the world!

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I'm sorry but as the saying goes prevention is better than the cure!

 

I disagree with that statement when used in such a blanket manner. Ramming bikes off of the road won't prevent anything.

 

It will prevent innocent people getting hurt or killed!

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I'm sorry but as the saying goes prevention is better than the cure!

 

I disagree with that statement when used in such a blanket manner. Ramming bikes off of the road won't prevent anything. And it can easily be used to support absurdly wild statements such as "We should castrate all mentally ill people to stop them from reproducing".




Besides, No that's not what I'm saying at all.


People should be stopped. And if they refuse to stop, forcibly stopping them safely if necessary should absolutely be an option if they pose a significant risk to others around them.

Otherwise, let them go. It's not like they will not have to deal with the consequences later. And the increased risk to others is by chasing them in an attempt to find an opportunity to force them off the road is often not worth it. It's the police' job to continually assess these factors and decide whether or not to continue the chase, attempt a forced stop, or call off the chase and catch them another way.


However, there is no way to safely forcibly stop a motorcycle. So let them, go and catch them later, and let them deal with the consequences when they are caught safely. You can easily outrun a police car, you can't easily outrun the law.


Which is exactly what happens now (mostly). Less risk to the public, less risk to the officers, less risk to the rider, less risk to the bike, lower insurance for all.


Ramming bikes off the road will only result in good guys getting punished, bad guys adjusting their tactics and traffic police having power over life and death. None of those are good results.

 


if you got woken up suddenly in the night by a noise downstairs, and found someone walking towards your front door with your tv and his mate was in the kitchen taking a dump in your cornflake box.... what would your reaction be... im guessing it would be to make them a cup of tea and perhaps open a packet of biscuits and try and have a friendly chat to tell them the error of their ways :roll:

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