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coronavirus....


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35 minutes ago, Bender said:

The daughter works from home is classed as key worker and the school will take devil child knowing she is working from home but she chose just to keep her at home.

 

 

 

Both our girls are in at their primary school. 5 in molly's class, 3 in Ella's class. Their loving it, and speaking to Ella's teacher yesterday she is as well ... subject to the usual caveats ...:classic_biggrin:

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1 hour ago, MarkW said:

When people talk about 'boosting' their immune system what they usually mean is avoiding the sort sorts of things that actively degrade it, such as poor diet, excessive alcohol consumption and lack of exercise. Getting older also degrades the immune system, but sadly there's nothing we can do about that.

 

But the idea that the immune system can be 'boosted' beyond a non-degraded state by magic pills or potions, the latest trendy superfoods or exercise craze is pretty meaningless. What exactly are you boosting? The immune system is a highly complex interdependent system - not the collection of discreet components that most people seem to assume when measuring the 'effect' of the latest immune-boosting fad. You can certainly increase the titre of certain immune components in your body by eating particular foods or stressing your body in various ways (exercise being the usual choice) but what does that actually mean in terms of immunity? Lymphocytes are always a firm favourite in these examples - especially T cells:

 

"I took my T-cell count before and after eating a bowl of turmeric, ginseng and powdered elk antler, and look how much it went up!"

 

Your body already produces far more lymphocytes than it needs, and is continually culling them through apoptosis (programmed cell death). Quite what the benefit is of having even more than more than you need I really can't say. And an immune system that functions more efficiently than it is supposed to is what causes allergies. 

My point was about lifting and maintaining a healthy immune system. As it obviously can't be better than it was designed to be. But to say you can't do nothing once your older and it degrades is far from accurate. Should the old just give up?,no.

We all at some point must have seen the difference between the elderly person who sits in the home, doing nothing but watching tv and either not eating or eating crap vs the same aged person who gets out daily, maybe attends an allotment and eats a varied diet. The later in better health and coping better with mild illness etc. Noone has the same immune system either and lifestyle choice through the age will have an effect on this. But my argument was against the comment that a healthy immune system has no affect on covid. If that was the case covid would be of more serious harm to people than it is. 98.2% will only have mild symptoms. Vaccines work by triggering an immune response and we adapt to fight the actual virus. Those with a weak immune system usually suffer worse with the vaccines.

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I am firmly of the opinion that a significant amount of Lagavulin in one's bloodstream renders one's immune system impervious to everything nature can throw at it.

 

It did mean I nearly fell into a local lake yesterday but it was fortunately frozen so I bounced out again. Buggers up the fishing though.

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One bit of good news in my general slough of despondency is my dad got his first jab today. Picked up in a mini bus with 2 other oldies and driven to Alnwick Cricket Club which was really well set up according to him. Briefed, jabbed, given a 15 minute timed sit and then bussed back home. Someone's obviously got things running well there.

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3 hours ago, jedibiker said:

Your saying being healthy has no benefit to a virus? you have to be kidding? so lets all get fat and do nothing then cos obesity has no effect on the immune system.. wow (but no doubt you will think masks work lol)

 

https://intermountainhealthcare.org/blogs/topics/covid-19/2020/06/want-a-defense-against-covid-19-strengthen-your-immune-system/ 

 

 

yes.

 

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1 hour ago, jedibiker said:

My point was about lifting and maintaining a healthy immune system. As it obviously can't be better than it was designed to be. But to say you can't do nothing once your older and it degrades is far from accurate. Should the old just give up?,no.

We all at some point must have seen the difference between the elderly person who sits in the home, doing nothing but watching tv and either not eating or eating crap vs the same aged person who gets out daily, maybe attends an allotment and eats a varied diet. The later in better health and coping better with mild illness etc. Noone has the same immune system either and lifestyle choice through the age will have an effect on this. But my argument was against the comment that a healthy immune system has no affect on covid. If that was the case covid would be of more serious harm to people than it is. 98.2% will only have mild symptoms. Vaccines work by triggering an immune response and we adapt to fight the actual virus. Those with a weak immune system usually suffer worse with the vaccines.

It was getting older that I said nothing can be done about, not maintaining a healthy immune system in old age. Your point that a physically active pensioner who eats healthily will have a more efficient immune system than one who sits in front of the TV all day eating junk food is I believe exactly the point I made in the very first sentence of my previous post.

 

Senescence of the adaptive immune system is a natural and complex part of the aging process, and the idea that OAPs are going to boost their immune system to better fight off coronavirus by eating broccoli or digging the garden is one of those things that sounds plausible to people who don't know anything about immunology. And don't forget that immune status is far from the only thing that determines how susceptible someone is to Covid.

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52 minutes ago, MarkW said:

 

It was getting older that I said nothing can be done about, not maintaining a healthy immune system in old age. Your point that a physically active pensioner who eats healthily will have a more efficient immune system than one who sits in front of the TV all day eating junk food is I believe exactly the point I made in the very first sentence of my previous post.

 

Senescence of the adaptive immune system is a natural and complex part of the aging process, and the idea that OAPs are going to boost their immune system to better fight off coronavirus by eating broccoli or digging the garden is one of those things that sounds plausible to people who don't know anything about immunology. And don't forget that immune status is far from the only thing that determines how susceptible someone is to Covid.

So in the first paragraph you agree activity and diet can improve the immune system then in the second eating broccoli and digging (immune boosting activities) will do nothing to fight off coronavirus, yet having an improved immune system gives them a better chance than that of someone with a suppressed immune system. Id say ive a good idea how the immune system works based on that.. If all old people couldn't fight coronavirus just due to being old, the 90 year old who survived it, wouldn't have.

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Just now, jedibiker said:

So in the first paragraph you agree activity and diet can improve the immune system then in the second eating broccoli and digging (immune boosting activities) will do nothing to fight off coronavirus, yet having an improved immune system gives them a better chance than that of someone with a suppressed immune system. Id say ive a good idea how the immune system works based on that.. If all old people couldn't fight coronavirus just due to being old, the 90 year old who survived it, wouldn't have.

Are you being deliberately obtuse just to annoy me?

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Just now, MarkW said:

Are you being deliberately obtuse just to annoy me?

no why, do you not like someone having their own opinion? your not right in what your saying. and my point is based on the people not having aids or other immunodeficiency disorders.

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On 06/01/2021 at 22:52, rennie said:

I know that this is an emotive subject!

We have a wide range of people on here with vastly different perspectives.

Overall I think we've done remarkably well recently, talked about some really challenging issues

without any major fall-outs! :thumb:

 

So lets keep things at least civil please ( I'd hate to have to moderate on such an important thread)

I posted this only 2 days ago!

I'm starting to get a bit fed up now!

Behave!

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36 minutes ago, jedibiker said:

no why, do you not like someone having their own opinion? your not right in what your saying. and my point is based on the people not having aids or other immunodeficiency disorders.

If you have led a life of drug-fuelled, drink-sodden sloth and gluttony your immune system is likely to be more depressed than that of someone who has led a healthy, active life. That is not at issue. What you seem to be saying is that beyond that it is possible to boost the immune system to better fight Covid; what I am saying is that the notion of 'boosting' your immune system is (a) pretty meaningless and (b) generally undesirable.

 

Perhaps it would help me to better answer you if you explained exactly what you mean when you say diet and exercise boosts the immune system. Does it boost T cell numbers, and if so what benefit are you suggesting follows from that? Does it enhance antigen recognition? Does it help mediate the antiviral response -perhaps by affecting interferon gamma or interleukin production? Does it enhance the production or pathogen-specificity of immunoglobulin, or antibodies? Does it improve the 'memory' or longevity of T and B cells? What exactly do you mean, beyond some vague notion that eating vegetables makes us healthier?

 

Then you said this: If all old people couldn't fight coronavirus just due to being old, the 90 year old who survived it, wouldn't have. Just walk me through the thought process that led you to that statement from what I have said in my previous few posts, because I'll be buggered if I can follow it.

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My son went for his 3rd covid test yesterday ..... all clear again .... 

Our friend Mel has a lad, 7. Because he has sniffles and coughs all through the winter .... and school are fully aware of it .... he has been for 5 covid tests since September .... all negative .... at some point this will become abuse ....

Edited by Trooper74
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35 minutes ago, MarkW said:

If you have led a life of drug-fuelled, drink-sodden sloth and gluttony your immune system is likely to be more depressed than that of someone who has led a healthy, active life. That is not at issue. What you seem to be saying is that beyond that it is possible to boost the immune system to better fight Covid; what I am saying is that the notion of 'boosting' your immune system is (a) pretty meaningless and (b) generally undesirable.

 

Perhaps it would help me to better answer you if you explained exactly what you mean when you say diet and exercise boosts the immune system. Does it boost T cell numbers, and if so what benefit are you suggesting follows from that? Does it enhance antigen recognition? Does it help mediate the antiviral response -perhaps by affecting interferon gamma or interleukin production? Does it enhance the production or pathogen-specificity of immunoglobulin, or antibodies? Does it improve the 'memory' or longevity of T and B cells? What exactly do you mean, beyond some vague notion that eating vegetables makes us healthier?

 

Then you said this: If all old people couldn't fight coronavirus just due to being old, the 90 year old who survived it, wouldn't have. Just walk me through the thought process that led you to that statement from what I have said in my previous few posts, because I'll be buggered if I can follow it.

Noone mentioned veg or just old people but you got that from what i said. Your clearly know so much more than anyone so good luck with it all..

 

Yes mod i will behave., done now,, cheers. (trooper your not a mod lol, you behave)

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Figures still climbing. I don’t work Fridays so missed the Covid briefing/discussion but my colleagues say number approaching the thousand territory for Sandwell and Wolves which is a fifty percent increase on 1 week ago. 
anecdotally I have staff absent and tested positive now which I did not before.

must confess I did not feel too nervous or anxious before but now do. 

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8 minutes ago, James in Brum said:

Figures still climbing. I don’t work Fridays so missed the Covid briefing/discussion but my colleagues say number approaching the thousand territory for Sandwell and Wolves which is a fifty percent increase on 1 week ago. 
anecdotally I have staff absent and tested positive now which I did not before.

must confess I did not feel too nervous or anxious before but now do. 

68,000 tested positive, going to get worse over next week I think.

 

Over1300 dead 😔 

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7 minutes ago, James in Brum said:

Figures still climbing. I don’t work Fridays so missed the Covid briefing/discussion but my colleagues say number approaching the thousand territory for Sandwell and Wolves which is a fifty percent increase on 1 week ago. 
anecdotally I have staff absent and tested positive now which I did not before.

must confess I did not feel too nervous or anxious before but now do. 

Since you see to have a bit of an inside track to this are the demographic's changing ? According to ONS it's still the over 60's that are predominantly at risk of death .... if this not the case please  share ....

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I have to work in Smethwick (comes under Sandwell) I'm not really happy with that!

Although I come into very little contact with others and spend most of my time on my own:thumb:

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3 minutes ago, Trooper74 said:

Since you see to have a bit of an inside track to this are the demographic's changing ? According to ONS it's still the over 60's that are predominantly at risk of death .... if this not the case please  share ....

It's probably still the old folk, changes brought on by old age, and other associated health problems that go with old age, obesity was a big red flag early on due to the extra strain on the body already.

 

We have been growing unfit overweight folk for a while it's not good.

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