Triumph Trophy Engine Strip

[Mickly]

According to Haynes, the cam caps should be numbered - and as panto season is upon us ... Oh no it isn’t!!

278E7F8D-CAAA-4E44-8D69-453E454325E5.jpeg3FE7DEAF-85E4-4071-B09A-54C3461752A1.jpeg

The end ones at the cam chain end are marked

8C09A598-0F3E-46CA-949D-A29D832D9889.jpeg63E094D0-C50E-4C9B-9164-0B6259265BAA.jpeg

So before removal I’ll have to find a way of storing them in order & the right way round.

 

What about separate bags and label them from the timing end?

I did this:

£9:60 from Homebase

[Guest Richzx6r]

According to Haynes, the cam caps should be numbered - and as panto season is upon us ... Oh no it isn’t!!

278E7F8D-CAAA-4E44-8D69-453E454325E5.jpeg3FE7DEAF-85E4-4071-B09A-54C3461752A1.jpeg

The end ones at the cam chain end are marked

8C09A598-0F3E-46CA-949D-A29D832D9889.jpeg63E094D0-C50E-4C9B-9164-0B6259265BAA.jpeg

So before removal I’ll have to find a way of storing them in order & the right way round.

 

What about separate bags and label them from the timing end?

I did this:55EA9576-4EC5-45BA-B11E-20AB45828A95.jpeg

£9:60 from Homebase

 

I saw after I'd posted

[TimR]

Wonders if [mention]Stu[/mention] removed this thread do you have a back up of your disassembly process ?

[Mickly]

Wonders if @Stu removed this thread do you have a back up of your disassembly process ?

 

[mention]Stu[/mention] please don’t lose this when you swap over to a new provider.

[Stu]

Wonders if @Stu removed this thread do you have a back up of your disassembly process ?

 

@Stu please don’t lose this when you swap over to a new provider.

 

I could hold it to ransom

[Mickly]

Wonders if @Stu removed this thread do you have a back up of your disassembly process ?

 

@Stu please don’t lose this when you swap over to a new provider.

 

I could hold it to ransom

 

Wow, big play for TOTY...

[Mickly]

Right, the mechanic at the end of the road says he’s happy to do the head bolts when he has some time, maybe late tomorrow afternoon

So while waiting, I thought I would address the slipping clutch that the guys that did the Dyno test identified.

Engine canted backwards on a piece of wood for ease of access to the lower fixings & stop any oil dripping out.

Bolts all out ( in a crisscross pattern ) now bagged, labelled & stored.

Clutch cover off, nothing looks untoward.

Ran out of boxes, so resorted to taping together some old cardboard.

Clutch springs out ( undone little at a time in a crisscross pattern) no info in the Haynes manual on checking these. Bagged & Labelled.

Clutch stack out in order - the friction plates seem good

Std = 3.80+0.8mm

Service limit = 3.60mm

Plain plate warpage

Std = 0.15mm

Service limit = 0.20mm

A couple of the plates had a small amount of blueing, but one was particularly noticeable.

Looks like that was the one trying to do all the work.

I think the plates were probably stuck due to sitting idle for so long, so I’ll clean & refit them when I’m ready ... what do you think?

[Tango]

Yeah, stick them back in and give it another try. I'm assuming that the clutch basket isn't notched?

[Mickly]

Yeah, stick them back in and give it another try. I'm assuming that the clutch basket isn't notched?

 

Basket is in good shape

[TimR]

Measure all the springs to seeif they are within similar length

Did you have the last friction plate aligned with the other plates or did you have it offset as some are meant to be offset to aid release etc

[fastbob]

That's a ridiculously easy clutch to work on ! It looks exactly like the one on my ER5 . The GSXR one needed a 50mm socket and an Impact Wrench after a four foot breaker bar failed to shift it . As for the Harley , that's just odd .

[Mickly]

Managed to lift the engine into my wheelbarrow with some carpet to protect it & a bit of wood to can’t it forward so it wasn’t resting on the gear change shaft & wheeled it up the road

So, Neil at NWC sorted the bolts - used a breaker bar 1/2drive Snap-on bit.

Wasn’t phased by the 1/4 turn before the bolts cracked, said it’s not unusual for such long bolts to be ‘flexible’

He left the mangled one until last & did a lot of teeth sucking - eventually he cracked it by tightening it up until it cracked & then undid it

For a total cost of Zero pounds - what a good guy!!

The head looks ok

Not too much carbon build up, valves look like they’re seated well.

The liners look ok as do the crowns of the pistons

There’s no lip or scores in the liners & piston crowns look quite clean.

[Mickly]

Phew, the threads survived the transition 

as have I.

[Mickly]

So, the cylinder liners are supposed to just pull out by hand yeah, right!!

any ideas on how to get them off without damaging them or the pistons?

[Mickly]

Got number 1 liner out, did it by levering it out with a screwdriver - tiny bits all around the edge, there is a chamfer at the top that is quite shallow & doesn’t present much purchase. And also used a piece of wood to protect the sealing face of the crankcase.

[iangaryprice]

Bet your relieved your post transferred to the new set-up OK. Most of your engine is looking OK so far. I noticed you had low compression but the leak down was not too bad. Be interesting to see what wear you find, I would have expected with low compression to have poor leak down results as well.

A trick I find successful for checking valves is to put the head upside down, cams out so all valves are closed. Fill the head cavities with petrol and see if it leaks through.

[Mickly]

Did it today, levelled the head up with a spirit level & filled the combustion chambers with diesel - that was 4 hours ago & it hasn’t dropped at all.

mused Diesel as it doesn’t vapourise as quickly as diesel 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Mickly

[Mickly]

11 minutes ago, Mickly said:

Did it today, levelled the head up with a spirit level & filled the combustion chambers with diesel - that was 4 hours ago & it hasn’t dropped at all.

mused Diesel as it doesn’t vapourise as quickly as diesel 

Meant to say it doesn’t vaporise as quickly as petrol .. Doh !!

[fastbob]

On 17/11/2020 at 19:15, Mickly said:

Managed to lift the engine into my wheelbarrow with some carpet to protect it & a bit of wood to can’t it forward so it wasn’t resting on the gear change shaft & wheeled it up the road

So, Neil at NWC sorted the bolts - used a breaker bar 1/2drive Snap-on bit.

Wasn’t phased by the 1/4 turn before the bolts cracked, said it’s not unusual for such long bolts to be ‘flexible’

He left the mangled one until last & did a lot of teeth sucking - eventually he cracked it by tightening it up until it cracked & then undid it

For a total cost of Zero pounds - what a good guy!!

The head looks ok

Not too much carbon build up, valves look like they’re seated well.

The liners look ok as do the crowns of the pistons

There’s no lip or scores in the liners & piston crowns look quite clean.

Mine looked good until I pulled them out . 

[Mickly]

Found this bit of swarf next to liner 4 !!

 

All 4 liners out - not an easy job ( understatement)

some vertical marks, but not much, might have to ask for a second opinion from someone more experienced.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Mickly

[Mickly]

Piston number one off

looks good? 

 

Top ring = 0.35mm tolerance is 0.20 to 0.41

installed in liner
Piston Diameter tolerance is 75.96 to 75.98.
Actual is 75.98

We might have a winner - the second ring gap is 0.63mm - upper tolerance is 0.56mm

is this enough to cause the compression issue?

[Ian Frog]

As I presume you have 2 rings plus an oil scraper ring I would be suprised if that was enough for compression issue but I await the investigation of the others with interest.

Also I would be keen to hear opinions from people like @fastbob who seem to know their stuff.

Cheers

Ian

[fastbob]

Beyond the upper tolerance . Well it's set for a reason I suppose . I couldn't actually tell you whether that is enough to cause a drop in compression or not . Generally , by the time an engine gets to me it's usually obvious what's wrong with it from the smoke or the telltale stink of petrol in the oil . 

[Mickly]

2 minutes ago, fastbob said:

Beyond the upper tolerance . Well it's set for a reason I suppose . I couldn't actually tell you whether that is enough to cause a drop in compression or not . Generally , by the time an engine gets to me it's usually obvious what's wrong with it from the smoke or the telltale stink of petrol in the oil . 

That’s the conundrum - is 0.05mm above the tolerance enough to make the difference?

[Ian Frog]

1 hour ago, Mickly said:

That’s the conundrum - is 0.05mm above the tolerance enough to make the difference?

What are the other cylinders like ?

Cheers

Ian