Expectations with new Heavy duty Fork Springs.

[jedibiker]

I finally got around to fitting hagon springs from justbandits. they came with 7.5w oil.

 

I expected to set the sag needing less preload, but already close to where it was before and still at 45mm.

Is that not how springs work? but the ride will be better etc.

 

Or i already had heavy duty springs in it and these are no better.

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

Check the length of the springs against the originals, I expect they are the same so unloaded the bike will sit the same. Once loaded you'll feel the difference. Depending on what else you might have changed of course.

 

[Stu]

 

The ride could be totally different especially if they are progressive springs 

[jedibiker]

On 09/06/2021 at 22:41, Stu said:

 

The ride could be totally different especially if they are progressive springs 

the ride doesnt seem better at all. tried all preload settings. now thinking springs in there were already an upgrade.  @Mississippi Bullfrog the new spring seems same lenght as old which is longer than the haynes suggests.

 

Just done 450 miles this weekend, wanted the footage from the drift smooth so tried all preloads, going really soft and non have given as smooth footage as the mrs bike does with me on it.

 

So, before I lose it with the front, could the rear shock cause such a lumpy ride, also tried this at all settings.. but they are known for being crap

[jedibiker]

i hear the 1200 shock fits straight on, thinking it will be better as meant for a heavier bike?

[Stu]

6 minutes ago, jedibiker said:

the ride doesnt seem better at all. tried all preload settings. now thinking springs in there were already an upgrade.  @Mississippi Bullfrog the new spring seems same lenght as old which is longer than the haynes suggests.

 

Just done 450 miles this weekend, wanted the footage from the drift smooth so tried all preloads, going really soft and non have given as smooth footage as the mrs bike does with me on it.

 

So, before I lose it with the front, could the rear shock cause such a lumpy ride, also tried this at all settings.. but they are known for being crap

 

It certainly sounds like someone has replaced the front springs before then! 

 

I don't think replacing the rear would help but as you say the 1200 shock is suppose to fit and be a better shock 

[jedibiker]

5 minutes ago, Stu said:

 

It certainly sounds like someone has replaced the front springs before then! 

 

I don't think replacing the rear would help but as you say the 1200 shock is suppose to fit and be a better shock 

Its odd the front has new springs, 7.5w oil that came with the springs yet doesnt absorb bumps, or if it is the rear is letting it all down..

I just saw something about Busa shocks fitting (with a wiggle) but are a little longer. But the 1200 would be ideal id bet.. mine could even just be done in never mind crap to start with.

il pop some footage on once get it off and show how bouncy it is compared to the fazer..

Now im focused on the reaction to bumps I cant help notice have crap the bike is. cheers

[Stu]

Does the front feel like its crashing in to the bumps in the road? 

[fullscreenaging]

I’ve recently swapped my springs for Hyperpro progressive and they came with 10w. The OE is only 5w. 
I’ve only ridden 3 times since the swap but they are definitely better. 
I couldn’t tell the difference on the first ride. The second I wasn’t sure, but today I’ve been out and can definitely tell. I think it just took me a few rides to get used to them. 
The front doesn’t dive half as much as before when applying the front brake. They are soaking whatever the road is throwing at me and it feels so much more precise in the bends. 
The front no longer feels vague, which I hadn’t really noticed before as I must have just got used to it. I’m entering bends quicker than I was before as I have confidence in the front. Not that I didn’t have confidence before. It just better. 
I can’t wait for the rear shock to arrive!! 

[jedibiker]

7 minutes ago, Stu said:

Does the front feel like its crashing in to the bumps in the road? 

not really unless they are actually bad.. just bike seems to feel all bumps..

[jedibiker]

6 minutes ago, fullscreenaging said:

I’ve recently swapped my springs for Hyperpro progressive and they came with 10w. The OE is only 5w. 
I’ve only ridden 3 times since the swap but they are definitely better. 
I couldn’t tell the difference on the first ride. The second I wasn’t sure, but today I’ve been out and can definitely tell. I think it just took me a few rides to get used to them. 
The front doesn’t dive half as much as before when applying the front brake. They are soaking whatever the road is throwing at me and it feels so much more precise in the bends. 
The front no longer feels vague, which I hadn’t really noticed before as I must have just got used to it. I’m entering bends quicker than I was before as I have confidence in the front. Not that I didn’t have confidence before. It just better. 
I can’t wait for the rear shock to arrive!! 

oddly it corners ok, just the ride is crap, they are hagon springs. hyperpro are much better but could only find sv650 ones.

Ordered these from just bandits and the feel alot like the ones i took out. I had 10w oil in the previous.

 

[fullscreenaging]

I would maybe look at putting 10w back in?

[Stu]

13 minutes ago, jedibiker said:

not really unless they are actually bad.. just bike seems to feel all bumps..

 

Seems odd then that your getting bad recordings! 

 

My FJR does crash a bit over bumpy roads but recordings or watchable 

 

I have hyperpro springs in mine 

[jedibiker]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

 

Seems odd then that your getting bad recordings! 

 

My FJR does crash a bit over bumpy roads but recordings or watchable 

 

I have hyperpro springs in mine 

my bike is jumpy, but also noticed the drift 4k lies a bit, at 1080 it crops to fov 115 but has stabilisation good, better footage (just looked at yesterdays when i was saving battery) but in settings at 2.7k, 60fps and 140fov stabilisation is on in settings but think its off, as when its really on the little camera has dashes on it.

ive messaged them to clarify there bizzare settings.

 

Despite this my bike is jumpy when going over most bumps, but handles bends well.

 

@fullscreenaging apperantly hagon recommend the 7.5w with those springs, someone said but another 25mm of oil in.  But doing either more oil or 10w will surely stiffen the response more?

Finding it all a mindfield to be honest, as soon as it makes sense something else contradicts other info.

 

thought id found a 1200 shock but he said its 300mm not 320 like mine.. just trying to find out how much it really matters..  nightmare.

[linuxrob]

Have you tested the rebound? With the f brake on pump the forks a few times then let them come up on their own. if they go up and down a few times then there is not enough damping. They need to come up and just start to go back down. Ended up with 20W (46 ISO hydro oil to be exact) in my MK2 1200 with Hagon springs. Not all fork oils specs are the same., someones 7.5W may be anothers 5W

 

The more pre load you apply the more spring energy there is stored so you need to up the damping (thicker oil) to stop that harsh feel.

 

Hagon recommended for my 1200 around 25mm less air gap than stock (130mm as opposed to 105mm stock. To get my Rider sag to 38mm (95KG all up) I had to have all but 4 turns on the preload. I added more oil for a gap of 120mm and now have 2 turns less preload to get 38mm sag. Remember the level is measured with springs OUT and fork COMPRESSED. Less air to compress so a bit of a preload boost. 

 

Check the sag and damping on the back shock. Push down and see if the back end jumps up too quick. My Std 1200 shock was chamged to a Hagon as the old one started to leak. The std one was soft even at highest preload and damping was still too fast at slowest adjustment.

 

Double check your tyre pressures too. My 1200 was 36 F and R with OEM tyres (Mich Macadams). All the other makes i have had recommend 38 F and 42 Rear. I find my 1200 better at 36 F only go up to 38 F when 2 up, rear always stays at 42. Check your guage with the man at a tyre shop, mine reads 2psi higher than his.

 

Another thing is to check your rear shock linkages, if they are stiff or seized it will give a harsh ride. Mine are out and greased everytime the rear tyre is changed. It is easy to do with the wheel in on the mainstand though.

 

One other thing. Make sure the forks are aligned correctly.

 

Loosen the F wheel nut, undo the 2 fork clamp bolts (M8) on the other side of the wheel nut. Bounce forks a few times.  Put on main stand. Torque up the wheel nut. Bounce forks a few time again. Put on main stand and torque up the 2 clamp bolts on the fork. This will allow the unclamped fork to align correctly.

 

hope this helps.

 

Rob

[jedibiker]

10 hours ago, linuxrob said:

Have you tested the rebound? With the f brake on pump the forks a few times then let them come up on their own. if they go up and down a few times then there is not enough damping. They need to come up and just start to go back down. Ended up with 20W (46 ISO hydro oil to be exact) in my MK2 1200 with Hagon springs. Not all fork oils specs are the same., someones 7.5W may be anothers 5W

 

The more pre load you apply the more spring energy there is stored so you need to up the damping (thicker oil) to stop that harsh feel.

 

Hagon recommended for my 1200 around 25mm less air gap than stock (130mm as opposed to 105mm stock. To get my Rider sag to 38mm (95KG all up) I had to have all but 4 turns on the preload. I added more oil for a gap of 120mm and now have 2 turns less preload to get 38mm sag. Remember the level is measured with springs OUT and fork COMPRESSED. Less air to compress so a bit of a preload boost. 

 

Check the sag and damping on the back shock. Push down and see if the back end jumps up too quick. My Std 1200 shock was chamged to a Hagon as the old one started to leak. The std one was soft even at highest preload and damping was still too fast at slowest adjustment.

 

Double check your tyre pressures too. My 1200 was 36 F and R with OEM tyres (Mich Macadams). All the other makes i have had recommend 38 F and 42 Rear. I find my 1200 better at 36 F only go up to 38 F when 2 up, rear always stays at 42. Check your guage with the man at a tyre shop, mine reads 2psi higher than his.

 

Another thing is to check your rear shock linkages, if they are stiff or seized it will give a harsh ride. Mine are out and greased everytime the rear tyre is changed. It is easy to do with the wheel in on the mainstand though.

 

One other thing. Make sure the forks are aligned correctly.

 

Loosen the F wheel nut, undo the 2 fork clamp bolts (M8) on the other side of the wheel nut. Bounce forks a few times.  Put on main stand. Torque up the wheel nut. Bounce forks a few time again. Put on main stand and torque up the 2 clamp bolts on the fork. This will allow the unclamped fork to align correctly.

 

hope this helps.

 

Rob

Hi cheers for that,

the forks dont bounce when pushed down but do agree that hagon etc need to be more specific as were adding different parts than stock. I saw dave moss advise about more oil too or heavier if preload not setting right. I will check that again though. Also, preload on a progressiv spring is misleading a little as the top is softer anyway. With more preload it is harsh, so with less and more oil it should balance out. If a little more 7.5 doesnt help il just switch it out to 10w and see how it goes. New springs should certainly feel better.

Il look at the alignment too, do you mean just losen the wheel and bounce? i

 

my back shock doesnt respond much to the pushing etc, ive seen how the guys in videos do it, and mine seems to have less enthusiasm, and I eventually had it on preload 5 and damp 1 as it was the nearest for handling. Tried damping 2 and 3 and by 3 it was shocking. (pardon the pun) on preload 6 it was too harsh too. and at that i still get sag of around 40mm+

The linkage is something id not thought of at all so thanks for that.

 

Loads of good advice to look at mate thankyou.

[fullscreenaging]

Also if not enough rebound your spring back too quickly. Too much and if you hit a series of bumps the spring won’t have time to come back up and it will feel like it packs down. 
 

Your description sounds like you don’t have enough rebound dialled in.

Could also be a combination of things.
 

I see you’re in Doncaster. I recently had my springs done by a guy who’s in Worksop. 
Track Prep Racing. His details are on FB. 
If you’re struggling with things give him a call. 
I highly recommend him. 

[jedibiker]

9 minutes ago, fullscreenaging said:

Also if not enough rebound your spring back too quickly. Too much and if you hit a series of bumps the spring won’t have time to come back up and it will feel like it packs down. 
 

Your description sounds like you don’t have enough rebound dialled in.

Could also be a combination of things.
 

I see you’re in Doncaster. I recently had my springs done by a guy who’s in Worksop. 
Track Prep Racing. His details are on FB. 
If you’re struggling with things give him a call. 
I highly recommend him. 

Cheers, the shock on this doesnt like much damping at all, any higher than 2 and it will not handle at all.

il find him in case i get stuck cheers

[linuxrob]

Follow my fork alignment as written and should align them. 

 

Stiff linkages on the rear will feel like to much damping, an easy check.

 

rob

[jedibiker]

12 minutes ago, linuxrob said:

Follow my fork alignment as written and should align them. 

 

Stiff linkages on the rear will feel like to much damping, an easy check.

 

rob

As written lol, fork clamp buts is what threw me, as the ones that hold the forks are 10mm and the one that locks the wheel spindle is just 1 nut.. Hence my question bud. cheers

[linuxrob]

18 minutes ago, jedibiker said:

As written lol, fork clamp buts is what threw me, as the ones that hold the forks are 10mm and the one that locks the wheel spindle is just 1 nut.. Hence my question bud. cheers

Ah yes a K8??

it's the one nut at the bottom on the 650 sa K7 and 8 etc, water cooled???. My K4  1200 has 2 pinch bolts, should have said pinch bolts now i come to think of it, sorry bout that. you leave the yoke clamps as they are.

 

 

[jedibiker]

7 minutes ago, linuxrob said:

Ah yes a K8??

it's the one nut at the bottom on the 650 sa K7 and 8 etc, water cooled???. My K4  1200 has 2 pinch bolts, should have said pinch bolts now i come to think of it, sorry bout that. you leave the yoke clamps as they are.

 

 

its a k6, but will be different from the 1200 anyway lol. I had a feeling what you meant but just to be sure its best to ask.. appreciate the help..

Added a little more oil today, have a feeling il end up changing it a heavier oil. it bounces a little after a good push but not lots so its not far off.

 

Linkage I was starting but nuts are solid so getting my brothers milwaukee impact tomorrow as its brilliant on those kinds of nuts, used it to remove engine mount bolts on the fazer. so will strip and lube that next..

 

cheers

[linuxrob]

Perfect. you could try some engine oil 10-40? try some poured out and see if it is thicker than the fork oil you have.

 

think i got a rear linkage pin from CJ accessories?, local garage pushed in my new needle roller.

 

here are the pages from my records of the work on the K4 in PDF

Bandit Overhaul from 2017 rear shock linkage only.pdf

[jedibiker]

11 minutes ago, linuxrob said:

Perfect. you could try some engine oil 10-40? try some poured out and see if it is thicker than the fork oil you have.

 

think i got a rear linkage pin from CJ accessories?, local garage pushed in my new needle roller.

 

here are the pages from my records of the work on the K4 in PDF

Bandit Overhaul from 2017 rear shock linkage only.pdf 368.29 kB · 0 downloads

cheers, il take a look. im sure once i get it off il know what a needle roller is lol. we have an engineer shop just down the road and my mate has a garage if its special job.

Just read it, and that is a well overlooked bit of maintenance. glad you pointed it out.

Edited June 14, 2021 by jedibiker

[fullscreenaging]

I know you already have the Hagon springs, but Hyperpro do actually do springs for your bike. 
£133 delivered. 
 

https://www.webshop-hyperpro.com/en/motorbike/suzuki/gsf-650-n-bandit/gsf-650-n-bandit/2005-2006/suspension/front-suspension/fork-spring-kit/SP-SU06-SSA019

 

In the photo they supply SAE15. Maybe something to think about if you’re going to put heavier oil in. 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by fullscreenaging