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E10 E5 fuel


Warpy
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I have a 1998 zx6r, I'm sure looking at the Gov site that it's not listed as compatible. Does this mean, when E5 is no longer available. My bike will be useless to me?

 

Thanks.

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E10 and E5 has been available for a long time (at least here in Scotland).

E10 have been sold as the lowest grade petrol 93 oct while E5 is the 95 premium petrol.

I've always run my bikes on 95 oct so I can't say how they would work on E10.

Not sure what was available in the Continent a couple years ago when I was touring.

Trying to run E10 maybe will mean adjusting carbs/injectors for a richer mix, eventually next time you need to replace fuel lines they only have E10 ready available as more ethanol means faster corrosion for the lines.

I believe that products like seafoam will serve as addictive to compensate E10

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E10 is 95 octane, that is regular unleaded

E5 is still available as super unleaded, 97 or 98 octane depending on which brand you go for.

I've just run my silverwing on E10, must admit it didn't seem as smooth but that's what its going to get. Any Honda made since 1993 are E10 friendly.

 

According to Kawasaki your bike isn't suitable for E10 so super unleaded for you.

 

https://www.kawasaki.co.uk/en/news/Greener_E10_fuel_and_what_it_means_for_you?Uid=08F3C1kJXwtfWQ4OC15RXFoJCVBaUF4LDlkKX1AJUVkMWVs

Edited by Bianco2564
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Having had a couple of top ups at the weekend it seems E5 super unleaded is 10 to 12p a litre more than std E10 unleaded, so is it really a viable alternative?

Do you think the fuel companies have cottened in to this ? Surely not …F*cking right rip off !!

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Makes me wonder how the French have dealt with this since E10 became standard in all 24/24 stations  they have been using it since 2009. Thinking back I don't recall much of a fuss on the BMW forums that I was a member of at the time.. where many of the owners were riding bikes from the 1980s and earlier. My guess is we will soon see the after market parts suppliers jumping in to provide parts to future proof vehicle of this age. I would be keeping an eye on the parts retailers. Or contact them and see what is already available.

Edited by Gerontious
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The risk from e10 fuel is quicker rottening of fuel lines and water absorbtion (its hydroscopic). 

Regular checks of hoses, along with an In line filter will help those matters. Obviously if you have FI most lines are metal so no issues there. I have heard of an additive that attracts the water so it burns it off in the cylinders, but whet you get it from I haven't a clue

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I've used E10 on occasion but I greatly prefer using the more expensive 97/98 octane stuff anyway. At about 2 quid a fill up more it's not exactly  going to break the bank. My bike definitely runs rougher on E10. 

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1 hour ago, billy sugger said:

The risk from e10 fuel is quicker rottening of fuel lines and water absorbtion (its hydroscopic). 

Regular checks of hoses, along with an In line filter will help those matters. Obviously if you have FI most lines are metal so no issues there. I have heard of an additive that attracts the water so it burns it off in the cylinders, but whet you get it from I haven't a clue

 

Perhaps its ability to absorb water is a bit of red herring as problems go. Absorbing water isn't the problem, its if the water separates out then that could lead to problems over the very long term. absorbing water from the atmosphere within a fuel tank won't amount to much... drops. (or drips) if that as the fuel will be covered with a layer of vapour which will go some way to preventing atmospheric air from getting into the tank to any great extent. Its why tanks have breather hoses.. this is mainly about allowing vapour to escape as the tank heats up in the sunlight.

 

I used to dose my tank on my old GS with Wynns Dry Fuel every spring.. this caused any water trapped at the bottom of the fuel tank, under the petrol to be homogenised into the petrol and then be burnt off under combustion, it also had a side effect of being a very effective injector cleaner.

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If your bike is carbed, there is a potential for 2 things.

 

1. Your carbs fuel mixture isn't compatible with E10, it may cause lean running. I've been telling those with carbed bikes that are meant to be compatible, that they should check their plugs now, run 3 tanks of E10, check again and see if there's an appreciable difference. 

2. The fuel lines on older bikes can't take the extra ethanol, the first symptom is they harden, but then they break apart and clog the fuel system. 

 

So for you, this would mean you need to use the super unleaded. Or swap out your fuel lines for E10 compatible versions, and then see what happens to the plugs and make a determination if adjustment is required to the mixture. 

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9 hours ago, Gerontious said:

 

Perhaps its ability to absorb water is a bit of red herring as problems go. Absorbing water isn't the problem, its if the water separates out then that could lead to problems over the very long term. absorbing water from the atmosphere within a fuel tank won't amount to much... drops. (or drips) if that as the fuel will be covered with a layer of vapour which will go some way to preventing atmospheric air from getting into the tank to any great extent. Its why tanks have breather hoses.. this is mainly about allowing vapour to escape as the tank heats up in the sunlight.

 

I used to dose my tank on my old GS with Wynns Dry Fuel every spring.. this caused any water trapped at the bottom of the fuel tank, under the petrol to be homogenised into the petrol and then be burnt off under combustion, it also had a side effect of being a very effective injector cleaner.

Back in the day we used to add some meths to petrol if water got into it. E5 and E10 just do much the same which is why you rarely get problems these days with water droplets in petrol. I saw an interesting article on engine wear which suggest that whilst Methanol can cause some increased wear in some components ethanol mix and pure petrol have very similar properties. Both have tiny advantages and disadvantages but nothing to cause any issues in terms of wear.

 

As said, the issue is in older fuel systems.

 

I've always run both mine on E5. I did a long run recently with a full tank of Super / Premium and then a full tank of E10. Maybe it wasn't a very scientific test but it felt like they actually ran better on E10. Bikes don't have the engine management system to take advantage of the higher octane. I think they're both specified for 93 minimum so run happily on E5/10 at 95. Using the 97 in the carbed Honda made no difference. In the FI Bobber it seemed to make the engine less flexible. No idea why that might be but it was less pleasant to ride and needed more attention to gears on twisty roads.

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According to Ducati owner's handbook the minimum octane the engine is set up for is 95. Hence I mainly use 97 and the bike definitely seems to prefer it.  Certainly won't be rushing to use E10 unless I'm forced to. According to Ducati its usable up to E10 but anymore ethanol will wreck the engine.

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