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Yet Another ER5 Project


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I've always got an eye out for things that are nearby and cheap. This is the latest to come into the garage. 

Not a lot will happen at first, mostly I will be going over what it needs, and what sort of project it should be. I've also got a Blackbird to tidy up and sell, and my girlfriends dad owns a 1995 CBR600F that I promised to tidy up. So it maybe waiting a month or two!

 

The bike is a 52,000 mile, single owner machine. It's pretty good condition, seeing as its been used in all weathers for 20 years. But it does feel very tired, and this is making me think "this bike isn't going to be a survivor bike". Which is tempting me down the path to turn it into something like a scrambler. And I need to be original as this is the third ER5 project on here after @fastbob's efforts. 

 

Here is the bike currently.

 

Kawasaki ER5 Kawasaki ER5

 

Pretty good for £650 I think, even with "covid tax" bumping up the price of every used vehicle on the market. 

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3 hours ago, fastbob said:

Looks like it's all there . The exhaust looks rotted in the usual place . 

 

It's got quite a high pitched chirp to the exhaust note, which is pretty loud at about 1500rpm and 4000. The noise goes away if I slip a metal rod into the exhaust and prod around, so something is resonating. 

I'll be replacing with a full stainless system in due course. If I remember right, they have a bit of a "chirp" noise normally, but this is a lot louder. And the dodgy paint job on the exhaust and lower frame suggests it's a bit rotten inside. 

 

It also sounds like the starter motor drags a bit after starting, even with the button let go. But as the engine picks up, it doesn't hang on for more than a couple of seconds. So a repair kit or replacement is probably on the cards if they are available. 

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34 minutes ago, Fozzie said:

 

It's got quite a high pitched chirp to the exhaust note, which is pretty loud at about 1500rpm and 4000. The noise goes away if I slip a metal rod into the exhaust and prod around, so something is resonating. 

I'll be replacing with a full stainless system in due course. If I remember right, they have a bit of a "chirp" noise normally, but this is a lot louder. And the dodgy paint job on the exhaust and lower frame suggests it's a bit rotten inside. 

 

It also sounds like the starter motor drags a bit after starting, even with the button let go. But as the engine picks up, it doesn't hang on for more than a couple of seconds. So a repair kit or replacement is probably on the cards if they are available. 

The starter motor might just benefit from a good clean and a rebuild . My first ER in particular had a whole handful of filth inside it . 

IMG_20200908_234430295.jpg

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  • 1 month later...

A bit of a slow start, I've had a lot on including moving my Blackbird to my dads workshop in Wales, which I need to get back to and do the works needed to sell it. I'm going back to either a 600 sports, or something weird that catches my eye. 

 

I've ordered in parts it desperately needs, as the exhaust chirp is maddening, this included a full stainless system by Delkevic. I may replace the silencer in time. A generator cover gasket for when I access the starter motor (and check generator windings when I'm there), as well as a repair kit for said starter motor, and a basic service kit as the oil looks manky. 

The idle circuit is also a bit crap, it's a tad slow to return to idle suggesting there's an air leak, or a clogged pilot jet. So I got an air filter for when I strip that section down, I don't want to whip the carbs off just yet as I want to ride it to Wales after the Blackbird is sold. As there's an ultrasonic cleaner there!

 

51917479239_3d957277b4_z.jpg

 

Oh, and a video of that chirp, taken while the garage was a bit of a building site and I fired it up. For those interested: 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/35526500@N08/51917780835/in/photostream/

Edited by Fozzie
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  • 3 weeks later...

Spent the last 2 weeks wiring up the garage with bits and bobs I found lying around, and bought from eBay. With that sorted, I finally thought I'd sort the bike, and... Well... 

Fixing up the starter motor didn't go as I envisaged. 

 

51951762663_dc7bbc3724_c.jpg

Sprocket cover and generator cover came off easy enough, but a problem soon appeared. The gasket was a real mess, and large parts of it was missing... Someone was in here previously. 

 

51952292780_f859373704_z.jpg

These are JIS screws, and someone has tried a phillips head on one of them. I managed to get them out with the proper screwdriver, but with difficulty. But someone has clearly had reason to be here before, and I'm hoping it's not because of the starter motor as in my head, what made them turn back and leave it as it was?

 

51951762618_fa8c83ea0e_z.jpg

2 minutes later, I had my answer. The left starter motor mount bolt came out, and was a bit weird as it did. I held it up and the bolt was bent. I got my socket on the one on the right, and it came loose easy, span twice, and then the head came off leaving the rest of the bolt in the starter motor mount. What looks like corrosion seemed to have a consistency of exhaust paste... Was this bolt glued in? 

 

So this week just became a lot more action packed, I'm going to drop the engine and fight the biggest battles with seized bolts now. Get the engine on the bench, drill out the seized bolt, do the valve clearances while I'm there (very tappy). And a full inspection of the engine internals if necessary, I've got a bore scope camera to check out the cylinder walls. It may have 52,000 miles on it, but the oil that came out was decent, and the last owner insisted while it was a training bike, it was regularly serviced, and didn't live a stressful life (apart from the clutch). I was hoping to do the bare essentials to get it roadworthy, and ride it to my dads workshop in Anglesey, but I've not got a great confidence in the bike now, without doing these works. 

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And for those interested, and with garages that don't have power... Some scavenged A3 pieces of MDF, a relay bank, a volt meter, and some DIN rail/terminals make a apocalyptic looking power control board. 

At the entrance of the garage is a big push switch triggering a 12V relay, this brings in a 300W inverter, which powers the board and just the lights. The inverter sits with the 95Ah battery in a little enclosure. A Honda generator in the opposite corner of the garage (exhaust plumbed through the wall and outside, with an alarm mounted directly above it)  comes on, and triggers the relays, breaking the inverters connection to the board, another relay in the battery enclosure drops out the inverter, as a battery charger automatically goes live 10 seconds after the generator starts. There are also some sockets wired to the wall that are only live when the generator is on, which is mostly powering power tool chargers. 

 

In simpler terms, you go in, press a switch and the lights go on but the sockets on the wall are dead. You put the generator on, the lights blink off, then on, and the sockets are all powered, with the battery charging. 

 

51950706397_c9f9708a73_z.jpg

 

I was going to tidy it up and simplify (you only need 2 of the 4 relays, I was trying to space the circuit out) but I quite like the bundled together look. Reminds me of the old video games set in post nuclear war times!

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51 minutes ago, Fozzie said:

Spent the last 2 weeks wiring up the garage with bits and bobs I found lying around, and bought from eBay. With that sorted, I finally thought I'd sort the bike, and... Well... 

Fixing up the starter motor didn't go as I envisaged. 

 

51951762663_dc7bbc3724_c.jpg

Sprocket cover and generator cover came off easy enough, but a problem soon appeared. The gasket was a real mess, and large parts of it was missing... Someone was in here previously. 

 

51952292780_f859373704_z.jpg

These are JIS screws, and someone has tried a phillips head on one of them. I managed to get them out with the proper screwdriver, but with difficulty. But someone has clearly had reason to be here before, and I'm hoping it's not because of the starter motor as in my head, what made them turn back and leave it as it was?

 

51951762618_fa8c83ea0e_z.jpg

2 minutes later, I had my answer. The left starter motor mount bolt came out, and was a bit weird as it did. I held it up and the bolt was bent. I got my socket on the one on the right, and it came loose easy, span twice, and then the head came off leaving the rest of the bolt in the starter motor mount. What looks like corrosion seemed to have a consistency of exhaust paste... Was this bolt glued in? 

 

So this week just became a lot more action packed, I'm going to drop the engine and fight the biggest battles with seized bolts now. Get the engine on the bench, drill out the seized bolt, do the valve clearances while I'm there (very tappy). And a full inspection of the engine internals if necessary, I've got a bore scope camera to check out the cylinder walls. It may have 52,000 miles on it, but the oil that came out was decent, and the last owner insisted while it was a training bike, it was regularly serviced, and didn't live a stressful life (apart from the clutch). I was hoping to do the bare essentials to get it roadworthy, and ride it to my dads workshop in Anglesey, but I've not got a great confidence in the bike now, without doing these works. 

You could probably get away with only one bolt on the starter but it's not something I'd be too happy about . 

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About ready to drop the engine, just need to pinch my platform jack off my dad tonight (left it in his workshop thinking I'd be doing this there!).

 

Got the fuel tank, air box, carbs, and radiator removed. It all gave up without too much of a fight, but the bottom of the tank is looking rusty, just as well I was going to send it off and have it properly restored/painted. Long term the bike will be staying blue, not ER5 blue, but candy plasma blue used on the later ER6F. A much deeper tone, with a metallic shine to it.

 

51956272197_d3230a12fc_z.jpg

That canister (assuming crank/oil breather of some sort), didn't have a pipe attached to it. Might be one for @fastbob to answer if you remember? Is that meant to have a pipe going somewhere? Some bikes link it to the airbox. 

 

While I had the carbs off, I decided they needed a good clean up, and a tidy up of the bowls. Thankfully, no one has been in these carbs before, the JIS bolts are untouched, and unmolested by a Phillips screwdriver. The carb pre-heat circuit had a filter that was full of garbage, so will be cleaned and replaced in due course.

51957323978_946b219a42_b.jpg

 

One bowl was very clean, but the other... Can't say I've ever seen green residue like this before? I've not seen petrol congeal into something like this before. I gave it a good clean, along with all the jets and reassembled. Then gave the carb bodies a good blast with carb cleaner.  

51957261681_c56f694076_b.jpg

 

Tomorrow I drop the engine, and hopefully have the starter out in no time. Get it looked at, and rebuilt, with fresh bolts back on in the places that need it. I'll be doing the valve clearances as well, and an inspection of the bores. Hopefully not too far out as I'd like to get the engine back in and the bike riding, the heavy duty work can come later. 

 

 

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19 hours ago, Fozzie said:

About ready to drop the engine, just need to pinch my platform jack off my dad tonight (left it in his workshop thinking I'd be doing this there!).

 

Got the fuel tank, air box, carbs, and radiator removed. It all gave up without too much of a fight, but the bottom of the tank is looking rusty, just as well I was going to send it off and have it properly restored/painted. Long term the bike will be staying blue, not ER5 blue, but candy plasma blue used on the later ER6F. A much deeper tone, with a metallic shine to it.

 

51956272197_d3230a12fc_z.jpg

That canister (assuming crank/oil breather of some sort), didn't have a pipe attached to it. Might be one for @fastbob to answer if you remember? Is that meant to have a pipe going somewhere? Some bikes link it to the airbox. 

 

While I had the carbs off, I decided they needed a good clean up, and a tidy up of the bowls. Thankfully, no one has been in these carbs before, the JIS bolts are untouched, and unmolested by a Phillips screwdriver. The carb pre-heat circuit had a filter that was full of garbage, so will be cleaned and replaced in due course.

51957323978_946b219a42_b.jpg

 

One bowl was very clean, but the other... Can't say I've ever seen green residue like this before? I've not seen petrol congeal into something like this before. I gave it a good clean, along with all the jets and reassembled. Then gave the carb bodies a good blast with carb cleaner.  

51957261681_c56f694076_b.jpg

 

Tomorrow I drop the engine, and hopefully have the starter out in no time. Get it looked at, and rebuilt, with fresh bolts back on in the places that need it. I'll be doing the valve clearances as well, and an inspection of the bores. Hopefully not too far out as I'd like to get the engine back in and the bike riding, the heavy duty work can come later. 

 

 

The crankcase breather should have a pipe about two inches long and about three quarters of an inch in diameter that links it directly to the bottom of the air box . This is a rubbish design that allows the crankcase to fill with fuel in the event that  the fuel tap and float valves fail at the same time . The breather pipe may still be knocking around your work area or sitting on top of the swinging arm . 

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I found it, it looked too small to be anything but scrap when I scanned the floor. But it fit on the airbox fine. 

 

I cracked on today, and got the engine out. The exhaust came off relatively easily, the middle mount wasn't even attached to the frame properly. And it's looking suspect with these botchy repairs.

51959480922_eb6054ce80_b.jpg

Two of the studs came out, which is good as I need them out. I think a couple of M8 nuts on here and some heat should see them free off. Ready for new ones.

51960543448_91819ce160_z.jpg

It was going reasonably well, until the final engine mount bolt put up a massive fight. Taking over an hour, and one of my 14mm sockets down with it. Had to use the sockets designed for rounded off nuts. 

51960474281_04c359e86f_z.jpg

 

Got the engine lined up to drop out, and slide over to clear the frame. It was actually quite a painful process, and putting it back is going to be even worse. 

51960767809_d623d6ceab_z.jpg

 

But in the end, it found its way onto my bench. Not sure about the radiator filler built into the head, I undid the bolts but it wouldn't move a bit. So might need to whip off the valve cover with it still attached if I can. Or get a big pry bar... Which I don't really like doing, as brute force is only really best for parts you don't want to reuse.

51960767964_e29fe1c2bc_z.jpg

 

Hopefully get some spare time this weekend and in the week. I'm busy for the next few weekends, so doing as much as I can now. Hopefully I have this back in the bike by the end of next week, but I'm reliant on parts arriving. Seems like everything takes 5 days to get here, even 1st class mail these days, I blame the sunny weather and beer gardens. 

 

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The thermostat housing and the two tubes that go into the head seize in place so be careful, just use a lot of your favorite release agent and gently rock the housing until it comes free. The tubes can go out of round if you use to much force but you can get them back in shape. There is an o ring on each tube I think 16mm Dia. As for the engine breather as Bob says either put the pipe back on or run a new hose from the breather up to nearly the top of the airbox and put a Ferrell in a newly cut hole. Then the petrol wont dump into the crankcases or you could just put a little pancake filter on the breather stub and do away with the little pipe completely but put a blanking grommet in the bottom of the airbox. 

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I wouldn't tempt fate . If the exhaust studs that have stayed in are serviceable I would leave them well alone . 

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On 25/03/2022 at 19:02, Old-codger said:

The thermostat housing and the two tubes that go into the head seize in place so be careful, just use a lot of your favorite release agent and gently rock the housing until it comes free. The tubes can go out of round if you use to much force but you can get them back in shape. There is an o ring on each tube I think 16mm Dia. As for the engine breather as Bob says either put the pipe back on or run a new hose from the breather up to nearly the top of the airbox and put a Ferrell in a newly cut hole. Then the petrol wont dump into the crankcases or you could just put a little pancake filter on the breather stub and do away with the little pipe completely but put a blanking grommet in the bottom of the airbox. 


Ive tried gently rocking it, wobbling, a bit of twisting, some heat, and a bit of gentle prying with a screwdriver.

It hasn’t budged a millimetre, and some sources online suggest it really seizes in tight. 
 

I’m using two spanner’s around the lower legs to try and lever it out, but it’s not even rocking. The entire engine moves and jostles about. 
 

I’ve only put a couple of hours into it, but I’m a couple away from getting a pry bar in there and jumping on it :lol:

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On 27/03/2022 at 18:35, Fozzie said:


Ive tried gently rocking it, wobbling, a bit of twisting, some heat, and a bit of gentle prying with a screwdriver.

It hasn’t budged a millimetre, and some sources online suggest it really seizes in tight. 
 

I’m using two spanner’s around the lower legs to try and lever it out, but it’s not even rocking. The entire engine moves and jostles about. 
 

I’ve only put a couple of hours into it, but I’m a couple away from getting a pry bar in there and jumping on it :lol:

I'm taking mine off this week . I'll try to show how it's done .

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7 hours ago, fastbob said:

I'm taking mine off this week . I'll try to show how it's done .


Cheers, I’ve tried again last night. I got a spanner around each pipe under top part connecting the two and pried at it. Didn’t budge. 
 

Videos I’ve seen online seem to show it wobbling when the bolts are off. Mine is frozen solid, you have to really pry hard to get any movement.

 

Fairly resigned to the idea of having to get a second hand one now. This one will be toast. The coolant that came out was just rusty sludge, so the previous owner used plain water rather than proper coolant. So these pipes might crack the valve cover before they release. 

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3rd attempt today. 

 

I've filled the plug recesses with WD40 for the third time, but unclear where it is draining to (seems too fast for evaporation). It might be going by the sparkplugs, but not sure. The engine is sat on a cardboard mat, and no sign of any residue. 

I'm going to try a mix of white vinegar, and distilled water, and fill up the engine blocks coolant jackets with a mix. Try to dissolve the rust from the inside, and then free the pipes.

 

If that doesn't work with my biggest pry bar, it goes to my old man to have a go at his place. If that doesn't work, it then goes to a friend with an engine repair shop, and if he can't get it out, I'll chop the connecting piece off the top of the pipes, cut slots into the pipes for a bar to fit in there, and force them to rotate to break the rust, and finally then hopefully pull out. 

 

Or the engine is scrap :lol:

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One problem with the design is on each side of the head is a little drain hole so water does not gather around the plugs but these holes get blocked and not cleaned out so a little pool of water sits around the plugs and thermostat tubes and does a really good job of seizing them in.

As you have found out it can be a real pain, makes you wonder if its ever been removed and if the valves have ever been adjust. Strange where the wd40 is going though. 

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1 hour ago, Old-codger said:

One problem with the design is on each side of the head is a little drain hole so water does not gather around the plugs but these holes get blocked and not cleaned out so a little pool of water sits around the plugs and thermostat tubes and does a really good job of seizing them in.

As you have found out it can be a real pain, makes you wonder if its ever been removed and if the valves have ever been adjust. Strange where the wd40 is going though. 

 

I filled up just short of the drain holes, but it does vanish quite quickly. But evenly at least! I'd be worried if I had a puddle in just one. If it was just in one, I'd worry that the spark plug threads were damaged on one side. 

 

I noticed scuffs on the valve cover before I started prying, if I had to guess, someone has had a go at this with the engine in the bike, and failed. It is quite "tappy" sounding when it last ran, so I do think its never had the clearances done. 

 

Spares seem readily available, worst case it will be a replacement engine (this has 52k on it, so hard to do worse). 

 

 

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The 600mm pry bar had to be used, and it still took an hour. There were consequences, and possibly a bad discovery. 

 

The offending article, the thermostat housing. I removed the gubbins around it and it wouldn't move. 

51970157772_b007539686_z.jpg

 

After 3 days of WD-40 baths, heat, and finally a vinegar solution to dissolve the internal rust (can't leave it in too long, it eats alluminum, and had to be flushed with deionised water) I had enough. And decided it was coming off, regardless of the force required. With the below being the result, a 600mm pry bar. 

51971724180_1744b59967_z.jpg

I still can't get my head around how tight that was in there. Evidenced from the bent metal work, I tried my best to keep it square as it lifted. In the end the right leg popped out first. With the left giving up quickly after that. 

 

The consequence, I've cracked the valve cover, and marked the jackets either side of the cover. All will need to be replaced. Luckily, they tend to come as one part on eBay. But... There's a possible problem.

51971159286_361c9cb2d0_z.jpg

 

After a quick inspection, there was some pretty big damage to one of the cam lobes. 

51971231768_68aacfef08_z.jpg

 

I can only guess at what did it. Is this normal wear? A sign of previous poor lubrication? Or is the clearance too big and its accelerated the wear? This needs to be answered before I go any further. As at the moment, this engine could be a dud. 

 

Any suggestions welcome!

 

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My guess for the damage to the cam would be that it has been run with fuel in the oil due to the fuel tap/carb issues with ER5's.

 

This is what other it did to mine!.. before I bought it.

 

20201020_154900.thumb.jpg.0c0a415d601e8de2074662426cec781b.jpg

 

 

Edited by KiwiBob
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Maybe best to look around for another engine?

 

I bought a good running engine for an ER5 for £100 last year .. sold it for the same price.

 

Not many on ebay at a reasonable price now though. ... This is the cheapest one ... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185315338987?hash=item2b25a7aaeb:g:g5AAAOSwoiFc~tev

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40 minutes ago, KiwiBob said:

My guess for the damage to the cam would be that it has been run with fuel in the oil due to the fuel tap/carb issues with ER5's.

 

This is what other it did to mine!.. before I bought it.

 

20201020_154900.thumb.jpg.0c0a415d601e8de2074662426cec781b.jpg

 

 

 

That looks consistent with what I'm seeing. The oil I dropped out was a bit on the thin side as well, or so it looked. 

If the bike was stood a while, that could also explain it, that first start on an old engine can wreak havoc. 

 

I did see the engines on eBay, and I'd go for the 18k miles one for £350. The guy keeps sending me an offer to buy it, the lowest being £270. So I might just pick that up and guarantee myself an easier time of it. But part of me likes how difficult this bike has been, so I'm tempted to persevere. It will be a scrambler style bike when I'm done, so I can just ride it until I kill it, and chop in a new engine then. 

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