honda steed 400cc will not start. pls help

[Guest]

hi all. i'm new to the forum.

i have problem with starting my honda steed. battery is 3 month old. it will not start from car battery either. it tries to start (very slowly) but it cant kick in. bike will start barely from car when car running. i took starter apart clean brushes etc and there was bit improvement but not much. i figured it is solenoid/starter but i got them checked and they apparently good. mechanic told me that it could be bendix. i took cover out and (pict attached) two wheels are moving very easily clockwise. will not move counter wise - can it be bendix?.cant afford to get her towed and fixed properly and i hate to see her rust. if you could give me some advice or direction i would appreciate it.

thanks for help.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll204/alinoee/2009_05_01_6850.jpg

[Pete]

Hello hello welcome to the lovely forum

First off don't jump the bike (or any bike) from a car battery when the car is running...ever...just don't do it. A running car will output too much juice and will likely damage the sensitive electrics in a motorbike. Jumping off a car battery when the car isn't running is OK.

First thing I'd do is remove the wires from the battery terminals and give them a clean with a brass wire brush (not steel, steel will clean them but if small particles of the steel brush break off it can introduce rust. Brass bristles won't). Pay particular attention to the earthing connector. If that's corroded it will seriously impede starting.

Sorry I can't answer your other questions, I'm sure someone will be along surely to fill the rest in!

[Guest]

Hi. . I've clean all connectors but it almost will not turn over from bike battery and barely for car battery. so i reckon it is not that. thanks for response

[rosszx9r]

Hi. . I've clean all connectors but it almost will not turn over from bike battery and barely for car battery. so i reckon it is not that. thanks for response

 

when was the last time the bike ran ok?

looking at the rust on the front sprocket, it's been a while

we could do with a bit more background in order to help such as any other work you've done to the bike

if the battery is good and the starter motor turns but only slowly, it's because the motor isn't passing enough current or the load on the motor is greater than it can cope with.

not passing current is due to:

poor battery

poor electrical connection (both at the battery or the starter motor grounding)

worn solanoid contact

worn starter motor brushes or weak brush springs

over loaded motor could be:

no oil in engine

corroded cylinder increasing friction

failed bearing

couple of quick test would be to take the starter motor off the bike and test it on a bench to make sure it spins ok. take the plugs out the engine and put a small amount of oil in the cylinder (if it's been sat for a while unused)

double check all main power connections and especially the ground connections.

you really need a volt meter to test the battery properly but when connected to a decent charger, the charger itself should give some indication of battery state. does it charge up ok?

[Guest]

when was the last time the bike ran ok?

looking at the rust on the front sprocket, it's been a while

we could do with a bit more background in order to help such as any other work you've done to the bike

if the battery is good and the starter motor turns but only slowly, it's because the motor isn't passing enough current or the load on the motor is greater than it can cope with.

not passing current is due to:

poor battery

poor electrical connection (both at the battery or the starter motor grounding)

worn solanoid contact

worn starter motor brushes or weak brush springs

over loaded motor could be:

no oil in engine

corroded cylinder increasing friction

failed bearing

couple of quick test would be to take the starter motor off the bike and test it on a bench to make sure it spins ok. take the plugs out the engine and put a small amount of oil in the cylinder (if it's been sat for a while unused)

double check all main power connections and especially the ground connections.

you really need a volt meter to test the battery properly but when connected to a decent charger, the charger itself should give some indication of battery state. does it charge up ok?

bike run last time about 4 months ago. it was getting harder and harder to start her. i thought it was battery so i bought new one. its is charging ok. the starter motor was tested and seems to be ok. it kicked off very strongly. i have to hold it down. i will try to put some oil into cylinders but i would like to check bendix before i will put everything together. it is located behind the generator cover and i'm not really sure how to it take out . it is on pict above and no 5 on diagram below. do you have nay suggestions how to go about it? i think bolt 14 is holding it up but when i try to unscrew it the whole things moves around. cheers.

http://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/ ... c_75e4.gif

[rosszx9r]

bike run last time about 4 months ago. it was getting harder and harder to start her. i thought it was battery so i bought new one. its is charging ok. the starter motor was tested and seems to be ok. it kicked off very strongly. i have to hold it down. i will try to put some oil into cylinders but i would like to check bendix before i will put everything together. it is located behind the generator cover and i'm not really sure how to it take out . it is on pict above and no 5 on diagram below. do you have nay suggestions how to go about it? i think bolt 14 is holding it up but when i try to unscrew it the whole things moves around. cheers.

http://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/ ... c_75e4.gif

 

bolt 14 holds it in place. not sure why you're calling this a bendix, it looks more like an alternator rotor to me. and no point taking it off.

the fact that it turns is good as it is bolted onto the end of the crankshaft so you can rule out engine seizure. just to verify all is ok, when you turn it, it gets harder and harder to turn, then if you keep turning, it surges round? if so, that would confirm your getting compression in the cylinder. taking this alternator rotor off requires locking the crank. you can just put it in gear and put the rear brake on but as i've said, i really don't think you'll achieve anything doing that.

since you've had the alternator apart, you'll most likely need to reset the timing (could be why it doesn't start!)

it's probably worth taking a step back from where you've got too. get the basics ruled out.

make sure your timing is set up correctly.

clean the carbs out

charge the battery (again)

clean the air filter

use fresh petrol

clean the plugs (replace if needed)

check all the electrical connections on the HT system

verify you get a good strong spark (could be a failing HT coil causing poor starting)

hope this helps...

[Guest]

bolt 14 holds it in place. not sure why you're calling this a bendix, it looks more like an alternator rotor to me. and no point taking it off.

the fact that it turns is good as it is bolted onto the end of the crankshaft so you can rule out engine seizure. just to verify all is ok, when you turn it, it gets harder and harder to turn, then if you keep turning, it surges round? if so, that would confirm your getting compression in the cylinder. taking this alternator rotor off requires locking the crank. you can just put it in gear and put the rear brake on but as i've said, i really don't think you'll achieve anything doing that.

since you've had the alternator apart, you'll most likely need to reset the timing (could be why it doesn't start!)

it's probably worth taking a step back from where you've got too. get the basics ruled out.

make sure your timing is set up correctly.

clean the carbs out

charge the battery (again)

clean the air filter

use fresh petrol

clean the plugs (replace if needed)

check all the electrical connections on the HT system

verify you get a good strong spark (could be a failing HT coil causing poor starting)

hope this helps...

 

it helps a lot. thanks.

-just to verify all is ok, when you turn it, it gets harder and harder to turn, then if you keep turning.

yes. i dint turn it more than 1/4 and it starts resisting. i dint force it more. having said that i can hear slightly air coming out. sort of the pssst thing. sorry for my newbie expressions!

-taking this alternator rotor off requires locking the crank. you can just put it in gear and put the rear brake on but as i've said, i really don't think you'll achieve anything doing that.

i got starter and celonoid checked and have been told that they are ok. all contacts are clean.

before the bike failed the old bike battery turned over the engine but died trying very quickly. i bought new one, refiled, charged etc. i last longer but still is not enough to start bike. charged car battery will start it once before its drained. (its turning over very very slowly for a long time and eventually gets it) its seems unlikely that all 3 batteries were faulty (car starts no problem). so i think it could be Bendix. its behind (under) rotor. this is why i'm trying to take it off.

http://shop.wemoto.com/pictures.dyn?u=25329qqq5828575

http://shop.wemoto.com/pictures.dyn?u=25329qqq5828092

is it pointless? i cant figure what else it could be. as for timing - i will have to do this somehow but bike had problems with starting before i took it apart.

and another stupid question. does the bolt come off clockwise or counterclockwise? i rather be sure before ill do it.

clean the carbs out - can you point me in any direction how to do this.

charge the battery (again) - i dont think battery is problem. tried 3 and same problem.

clean the air filter - could filter affect the speed of turning over?

use fresh petrol - i did couple times

clean the plugs (replace if needed) - i did couple times

check all the electrical connections on the HT system - i did.

thanks for patience and all help again. i really do appreciate this.

[rosszx9r]

-just to verify all is ok, when you turn it, it gets harder and harder to turn, then if you keep turning.

yes. i dint turn it more than 1/4 and it starts resisting. i dint force it more. having said that i can hear slightly air coming out. sort of the pssst thing. sorry for my newbie expressions!.

that sounds fine. it's the gases being compressed that you hear hissing. no need to force it any further.

before the bike failed the old bike battery turned over the engine but died trying very quickly. i bought new one, refiled, charged etc. i last longer but still is not enough to start bike. charged car battery will start it once before its drained. (its turning over very very slowly for a long time and eventually gets it) its seems unlikely that all 3 batteries were faulty

you're right. 3 faulty batteries is unlikely. but still possible

so i think it could be Bendix. its behind (under) rotor. this is why i'm trying to take it off.

is it pointless? i cant figure what else it could be.

there are far more likely causes.

if the engine turns over, i'd be thinking it's ok mechanically and that it's an electrical fault of some sort. if it is the starter clutch it must be completely mullered if it's draining the battery that quickly and i would of thought you'd notice when turning the alternator by hand. looking on the net, the main problem appears to be the clutch not engaging properly (starter free wheeling i.e. not jamming). i've also checked a couple of old haynes manuals for a CX500 and CB400 both with similar starter clutches and there is nothing of note in there except for a comment about failure in this area being unlikely.

what could be happening is your battery is feeding an electrical fault at the time you are trying to start the machine. since it's not blowing any fuses, it must be in the ignition or starter circuit.

if you turn the ignition on and then the headlight, does the light last long?

what then happens if you try and start the bike with the headlight on? does it dim straight away?

one thing you can do is after recharging the battery and trying to get the engine turned over a few times, feel for warm areas on the wiring loom or on connections such as the main ground connection. it might help you identify where all the battery power is going. ideally, i'd suggest using a multi meter but unless you're familair with electrical fault finding that won't be much use. i really think it worth the effort to rule out electrical faults before pulling the engine apart (unless you've loads of time on your hands!)

failing that, if the bike bump starts, get it round to a nearby garage and give them the heartache of finding the fault. once they have the diagnosis, you can still take it away and do the repair yourself to keep costs down. just need to pay them for there time!...

[Guest]

there are far more likely causes.

if the engine turns over, i'd be thinking it's ok mechanically and that it's an electrical fault of some sort. if it is the starter clutch it must be completely mullered if it's draining the battery that quickly and i would of thought you'd notice when turning the alternator by hand. looking on the net, the main problem appears to be the clutch not engaging properly (starter free wheeling i.e. not jamming). i've also checked a couple of old haynes manuals for a CX500 and CB400 both with similar starter clutches and there is nothing of note in there except for a comment about failure in this area being unlikely.

what could be happening is your battery is feeding an electrical fault at the time you are trying to start the machine. since it's not blowing any fuses, it must be in the ignition or starter circuit.

if you turn the ignition on and then the headlight, does the light last long?

what then happens if you try and start the bike with the headlight on? does it dim straight away?

one thing you can do is after recharging the battery and trying to get the engine turned over a few times, feel for warm areas on the wiring loom or on connections such as the main ground connection. it might help you identify where all the battery power is going. ideally, i'd suggest using a multi meter but unless you're familair with electrical fault finding that won't be much use. i really think it worth the effort to rule out electrical faults before pulling the engine apart (unless you've loads of time on your hands!)

failing that, if the bike bump starts, get it round to a nearby garage and give them the heartache of finding the fault. once they have the diagnosis, you can still take it away and do the repair yourself to keep costs down. just need to pay them for there time!...

thank you very much. i dont think its switch nor starter circuit. i tried with them and then i took them out off loop and connected celonoid-starter and ground directly to batteries.

no difference at all. new (and charged) motorbike battery gives enough power to turn over engine for about 20-30 seconds but it is not enough to engage the engine (feels like its trying but cant get it fast enough. sort of slow motion turn over). the head light is dimmed then. (i took it out of circuit now thou to eliminate this as possible electric fault). after battery is 'drained' celonoid only click and got very little turn over ( 1-3 seconds) but if i leave the head light it goes for 1 hour and its relatively bright (took out battery to recharge so i didn't check how long it will go before it will die. i know that i'm newbie but it 'feels' like it needs much more power from battery than perfectly good battery can give and after connection only celonoid - starter and ground to battery all of electrical circuits in bike are out of the loop. am i missing something?).

i have lots of time and very little funds to spent (i'll do what i can thou). i've lost my job shortly before she has died and was waiting to get her fixed properly. but at this stage i think it might not happen to soon since i've been looking for job for almost 5 months and getting really concerned about not being able to start her. the nearest garage its 15 km away and that would be a long push . i'm waiting for my starter and celonoid to come back (its in the post). when i will get it back i will bump-start her and take her to garage but in the time being i can check and try to clean the bendix. i did put her in gear and rear brake (thanks for tip!) and it goes around till air is compressed and than stops rotor. but bolt wont budge. i don't want to force it so any ideas if i should go clockwise or counterclockwise.

thanks again.