macjaffa

I realise that the access for the sprag (if I was lucky) would be here...an oblong case...but it isn't...

I'm not going to be removing and splitting the engine for the sprag...so...if the access was anywhere, it would be here...I believe?

N'awwww.....think it's game over for this little venture.  

1 hour ago, onesea said:

 Am no expert if your on FB look for the triumph T300 group…. However if she is turning over it’s probably not the Sprag clutch.

Did she start again after she’s been left to go cold?  There are other issues with these engines if they have been left sitting.

If she does it might be the crank position sensor pick up. Or even the coils if I recall they work worse, when warm and they are on top of the engine…

 

these guys are good for parts…

 

https://www.triumphparts.co.uk/product-category/triumph-parts/

 

The other thing is 20 minutes idle is long time for any bike.. Mine certainly doesn’t like getting warm.. She stalls very easily.  I assume she’s got coolant and had no steam coming out the oil level is still good and there where no nasties coming out of the exhaust…

 

 

Howdy, 

Ooops, I read it was good to let it run for a while after it hasn't for a bit...so I let it sit for a while.  

I haven't been able to get back to it to try it cold again, but here are two vids...of when it started and when it was running.  Someone on a FB group said it sounds like it's only running on two cylinders. 

Sounds like the sprag is done in the start up one, does it not? 

Also, just before it started, zoomed into the photo, I see a spark ON the engine, under the fairing...then it just bopped into life.  That doesn't seem right to me, at all....erm, anyone have thoughts? 

Thanks for the triumphparts link!  I'll take a look!  Thank you!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RWEVgXRuk4HJYXbiBqTx7PkDw4XhwVlY/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FA64YmckgCCnXi0rQ25wMlph2QctR00a/view?usp=sharing

On 14/03/2022 at 22:59, onesea said:

 

 

If you haven't already try my start up and let me know how you get on ..

Hey, it started.  I must admit I forgot myself and indulged in a few excited revs, rather quickly, but it idled happily for 20 minutes.  Didn't start again after that, but I think I've lost the sprag clutch.  Would it even start with the sprag clutch gone, though?

Now it has at least started, I assume it's worth a little more effort.  I'll grab a Haynes manual and hopefully a sprag clutch...I guess I have to look into that now.  I can take the case off the engine on the bike's right hand side, so I'm assuming I'm one of the lucky ones who don't have to remove and split the engine.  

There is a 1996 sprag clutch available online...is this fine for a 1995 Steamer?

20 hours ago, onesea said:

If it's same as trophy reason for 1/4 tank is the frame goes through the middle of the tank.

Tilting it towards the peti-cock side before starting the lump in the middle of the tank will hold fuel that side of the tank.

 

To many roundabouts and no left hand bends you can have 1/4 tank on the guage and no fuel suction side of the tank.

 

If you haven't already try my start up and let me know how you get on ..

Wow, thank you!  That's awesome to know!  I'm suddenly wondering if I needed to put more fuel in it...can you imagine if that was the bloody problem?!! 

And yep...I'm needing to get back from work before it's dark and I'm looking forward to trying those things....I'd really love to hear this bike come to life. :). I'll definitely let you know how it goes!

On 13/03/2022 at 21:03, Bianco2564 said:

What choke setting do you use?

My R1 in cold weather needs to be fully on but in warmer weather only half choke is needed.

If I don't have it set just right it won't start.

Hi....tried it on all settings, really, (off, mid and high).  Just desperately knocking it to all, really.  It sometimes almost fired up...it seemed so close.  

22 hours ago, onesea said:

I have year 2000 trophy 1200 same engine extra cylinder.  These engines are great when running, your right to worry about the sprag clutch.  It’s low voltage cranking amps that kills them they say. I change my battery at first hint of slowness starting every 2 years it seems.

Have you got car size battery to use as jump pack?  Or connect to car battery car not running?

Sometimes they just need an extra bit to get them started, a weak battery will not start them. If it’s much below 12v don’t try is my thought. I have old car battery for this event.

If you have tank off check the peticock works attach vacuum hose to valve give it suck check fuel comes out of tank.  Also check fuel comes out when on reserve and on prime without suction.  Turn to prime till she is running, some owners run on prime or reserve all the time, but if you know it’s working there is no need.

 

You could get one of these OR SIMILAR and T piece for both fuel lines to ensure FRESH E5 FUEL.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384347399703?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1wgBevoBwQJKG2DN1nQoqFw60&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=384347399703&targetid=1596500856709&device=t&mktype=&googleloc=1006900&poi=&campaignid=15278604175&mkgroupid=135429446288&rlsatarget=pla-1596500856709&abcId=9300698&merchantid=431275009&gbraid=0AAAAAD_Lr1cHMKe7Lgi5lVCrheTqvJVDi&gclid=Cj0KCQiAybaRBhDtARIsAIEG3kncUFjIQTSKPw3TbIm9BAJ-Zy3E457vMB3HGb-ots3z7axCT0xtepEaAnAvEALw_wcB

there is fuel filter in the tank on the other side of peticock valve, but if your getting fuel at the bowl drain I would not worry.

 

They are also prone to weak sparks so if you can see a spark that is good, wd-40 can help in this area.  Coils are also prone to failure.

Check fuel lines, the trophy has small fuel filters in the lines.
However if you get fuel from drain valve it’s probably OK

 

My trophy (and I think most of these engines)  HATE starting with any EXTRA revs. Turn the idol control down.

Turn the fuel to prime and WAIT a minute or so (with experience it can be less).

 I push the start button and close choke until it fires up bring revs up on idol control then open choke fully.

Put petiock valve to on, the middle setting.

 Let her warm up and as revs go up reduce them to 900rpm.
If she doesn’t start I try again with no choke gradually easing it on.
After that she starts on the button all day it’s just that cold morning start that can be challenging.

The choke cable should be slack when choke is open.

Having just changed my air filter (after 6 years and 25k miles) yes that is the air box, it’s carbs off to change it (on a trophy). A dirty air filter will also make it a swine to start, I had similar symptoms but could get it to start.  If you can get her to start it might just be damp reducing air flow, it seems they don’t like to start on a rich mix.

 

If you take the carbs off, Watch the rubber cones they are prone to cracking and on trophy’s have slight angle in make sure you put them in the right way round and orientation.

 

If she is together ready for starting try above start up procedure on battery pack or jump leads from good battery.  If she starts I would keep her running for 10minutes on low revs before stopping. 

 

A Haynes manual is a god send.

PS I generally run mine on E10 with the odd shot of quick silver fuel adative.

Thank you so much for the reply -and the time put into it!  There is so much here and I will use it as a great checklist as I get back to work on it.  Thank you.  

In the video we were jumping it from a car battery...and before that I was using my fully charged other bike battery.  I would hope those both would have had the power.  I'll keep the battery on a trickle charge to ensure it's topped up, before I try to use it again...at least take it out of the equation, as much as possible. 

I had someone mention that if they don't have more than a quarter of a tank of petrol, then their Tiger doesn't start.  I've got six litres in there now, which is bang on a quarter...so I guess I should put more in...to take that out of the equation.  Mounts up on the pennies! ha 

But, again, thank you for the help.

25 minutes ago, Ian Frog said:

As someone who owned Ducati desmos back in the 80`s I would stay well away from starter sprag clutches unless absolutely necessary.

Horrible little mechanisms prone to spitting small bits all over the place don`t ask me how I know lol.

Cheers

Ian

Ha, I'm crossing fingers and toes....and my eyes....and just hoping I don't have to have a crack at it.  

28 minutes ago, Ian Frog said:

That looks a pig to get to lol.

If it`s awkward it might be a clue as to a lack of maintenance which may be a clue as to your non starting issues and worth the effort of checking.

Cheers

Ian

That's a really good point...yeah, I don't think the filter would have been changed...in 6 years.  Although he's done less than 2000 miles on it since 2017's MOT. 

Ohhhhh....carbs, airbox, maybe sprag...fun times ahead.  Darn it.

30 minutes ago, Ian Frog said:

As you are only using it to check the system and start the engine it shouldn`t matter too much but once you get it going best to run with the correct battery.

while you are at it have you checked the air filter housing to ensure the free flow of air ?

Forgive me if you have already mentioned this but I am only dipping in and out of here lol.

My thought is based on experience of rodents setting up home in an air box in the past.

Cheers

Ian

I appreciate any and all input, thank you!  That's cool...I'll keep using this battery until it fires up...then I have the battery ready to order.  Saves pennies in the moment. 

The air filter housing...eeesh...no, is that tough to get to?    The attached pic shows what I think is the airbox...the filter is in there?  It feels like I'd have to dismantle the whole bike to get at it?  Ha, and rodents...really?  Quite unexpected!

3 minutes ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

If you're not getting unburnt petrol at the tailpipes after cranking then fuel isn't getting into the cylinders. 

Ohhhh....erm....that doesn't sound great.  Petcock is set to 'Fuel'....I drained the carburettors from the screw at the bottom (as I thought there still may be old fuel in it)...and then cranked it...and checked afterwards and there was fuel in them again (I assume the new fuel).  But something can be blocked between that and the cylinders?

Another question: (this may be a silly one), but my GS500F has a YUASA YB12L-A2  battery, which is new,...this one has a YUASA YB14L-A2, which is dead...the difference is the 12/14...although I don't know what that refers to.  I've been using the GS one.....that's fine....isn't it?

Oh, darn it....Quicksilver Powertune...I've noted that down...thank you.

Unburned petrol...no, not from the exhaust.  With some of it's more 'almost' moments, there were some wispy fumes coming out, as though the engine was running, but it was always 'almost'.  There were a couple of gutteral pops out of the exhaust on occasion.  But that's it. 

I'm getting a little anxious about the sprag clutch going, with all these starting attempts.  

12 minutes ago, Ian Frog said:

Hope you get the tools to look carefully at the plugs etc.

For what its worth Seafoam is quite well thought of however take the can of Easystart and put it completely out of reach !

Carb cleaners and othe things are available and will cause less problems in the future.

Cheers

Ian

Hi Ian, 

Yep, the socket I need is on order for Monday..and the Seafoam is due to arrive then, too.  I think -weather dependent- I'll spend Monday evening draining the fuel tank again, checking spark plugs and getting Seafoam through.   As I understand it...I empty the tank, put half a bottle of sea foam in....attempt to start the bike which should get the seafoam into the carbs...then let it sit.   Is that right?    I'm unsure how to flush out the seafoam after that....I can undo the screw at the bottom of the carbs, or does it just flush out with fuel?  

Good to know about the Easystart...I didn't know it was likely to cause issues in the future.  Darn it! 

Thanks!

1 hour ago, MikeHorton said:

I'm no expert but I know recently on here there was a discussion on seafoam. I think the conclusion was that it's worth a go if your not confident to strip the carbs. If it was only sat for 6 months I'm hoping it's nothing major 

Thanks....that's good to know...it's a good step to take first, then.  I've just ordered some on Amazon.

23 minutes ago, KiwiBob said:

You say the lead to the plugs are sparking .. What about the plugs?

Yeah, I don't have a tool to get into it at the moment...(socket should arrive on Monday) so I thought I could at least see if the plug lead, connector thingymajiggies were carrying a spark, which they all were.  Think it is worth having a peek at them, though. 

Hello! 

So, for anyone who saw my other post...I got hold of the Tiger...I felt tall enough.  Just!  

But, it won't start -which I knew. 

It has been sitting for about 6 months, I think (it had old E5 fuel in it).

It was running fine before it sat for a while.  The previous owner changed the oil, spark plugs and oil filter in the last week, before handing it to me yesterday, but it still does not start.  

I'm getting a little worried that starting issues can cause the sprag clutch to go...so I'm getting anxious.

I have drained the fuel and put fresh fuel in (also drained the old fuel from the carbs).
The spark plugs (or, at least) the lead to them is sparking.
I have put Easy Start down the air intake to try and get it going just a little bit, so that I can then put redex through the running engine...and clean the carbs a little.

But it won't start.  Please see my video links to hear it...it sounds like it's almost there.

I can see the carbs...and am prepared to take them off and have a go at cleaning them -if I have to- but I'm a noob and would rather exhaust other options first.  I have seen that draining the tank and running sea foam through into the carb system and letting it sit is a good alternative.   On that...is pure redex a fine alternative to sea foam? 

I've linked to two videos of it trying to start....do you think it needs the carb overhaul or treatment?  Or, the guy who was helping me thought the spark plugs might be the wrong ones and not sparking themselves...I don't have the tool to take them out at the moment. 

Any thoughts, please? 

Thanks!

Video Clips:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1d5AtsKm6NTamC9AYrypLszNbHUcb-1Yy/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GEN4RlVN5ZymJI8U7v_Gpqo2iomQ2c3B/view?usp=sharing

4 minutes ago, Ian Frog said:

All that said it sounds a bit of a no-brainer to me.

I hope you have fun doing it up and more importantly riding it !

Cheers

Ian

Ha, yes...I feel like I've spent more time wrenching on the GS than riding it...but hopefully the Tiger would be a different story. haha.  Learned a lot though.  

14 hours ago, Ian Frog said:

Before crunching any numbers I would want to see it and maybe talk to the owner as to how long they have had it and in general how have they got on with it/ who maintained it?

Then I would start looking at value etc as even if it`s dirt cheap if you aren`t confident about the reasons for sale how it`s been looked after walk away.

On the upside that does sound cheap and if your parents have known them for ages and trust them it could be a diamond.

Carpe Diem and Caveat Emptor spring to mind.

Cheers

Ian

Hiya, Ian, yep, that's making a lot of sense.  He's the type to take care of and maintain it..and as for his reason for sale, it's just that he hasn't used it in a while and he feels too old now....he's backing away and just wants some money to put towards fixing his favourite car.  I'd feel confident, also, that he wouldn't pass something on to me that was a problem, or unsafe.  I think he's let me know of anything he's aware of and said it's needing a little tidy up...but that's okay.

Could be something to snap up.

14 hours ago, goat said:

£500? I'll buy it if you don't.

Back away there....haha...but I get the point.  I think I'm leaning in towards the idea.  Thank you!

13 hours ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

Go for it. Great bikes and at that price it's a billy bargain.

I think I will...it's good to get the confirmation from you...I'll throw him a message to find out the little details.

12 hours ago, Old-codger said:

Make sure the sprag clutch is ok on that triumph as that is a weakness on them especially if the battery is low. Its an engine out and split cases to replace it. If its in good nick that could be a cracking deal.

Thank you...just Googled this...so I should hear a concerning, metallic thud on start up, if there's an issue.  I'll take a look!

12 hours ago, KiwiBob said:

If its a runner and has an MoT 'till June then for £500 I don't think you can go far wrong!

I think I agree....thank you!

--- General Reply ---

I feel like I'm going for it.  I have to see it and check on the height (I'm a little short, perhaps)...but I think it's an older bike but quite a bargain.  My bike is running well at the moment, but it has its quirks...I can't go wrong and it's nice to play with something new.  

Thanks for the help and advice!  

Hello there good people!!

In August I got back on the bike (after 10 years) with a Suzuki GS500F. It has been fun and frustrating step back into biking...and I've learned a lot about keeping it going, maintenance and horrid little fix jobs (thanks to you all for the help and advice).   The GS has just tipped over 50,000 miles.  It runs okay...but I've given it a new battery, sparkplugs, put carb cleaner through it and it seems quite happy for the moment.  It will need front sprocket and a chain soon, I should think.  MOT in May.

It's just about running quite reliably, but I know I need a bigger bike for motorway miles.  I'd also like to do some fun miles like the NC500. 

I've got a friend of my parents who is happy to part with  a Triumph Tiger 900 (1995)...for £500.  It's way older...I don't yet have details like the mileage but I'm sure it's waaaaay below my GS' 50,000.  It has a small hole in the exhaust manifold, apparently, and the rear disc break needs replacing.  MOT in June.  

It's an older bike, but I kind of figure that a bike is as old as its mileage.  I'd definitely like to get that style of bike, but until I win the lottery (which I don't play) I won't get something like BMW 1200 just yet. 

I don't know if it's a clever little move or silly.  I'd have to sell my GS.  But I also can't help but think that the resale of the Tiger must be well over £500 and might be worth the investment.  

Any thoughts, please? 

Thanks!

2 minutes ago, Yorky said:

 

Pervert !!

haha 

1 hour ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

I had one of those many moons ago. It was really nice to ride. The only reason I got rid was that on mine the paint fell off every time it rained. I was forever touching it up. 

I am enjoying mine..but I look forward to getting a bigger bike next year.  Used to have a VFR 800...was rather nice.  

1 hour ago, Old-codger said:

AS others have said if the axle nut done up tight it wont move but if it concerns you just nip up that nut probably 1/4 to a 1/2 a turn to take the slack out of the adjuster plate.

That's great...thanks.  I will do...I have the axle tightened to spec torque so I can adjust the plate nut and make it all snug.

11 minutes ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

I do mine lower to upper.

 

My adjuster plate often works loose after I've tightened the axle nut. Once the axle is tight, the chain is at the correct tension and the wheel is aligned just tighten the nuts on the adjuster arm to secure the plate. It's not going to affect the wheel alignment or chain tension as that's held by the axle nut.

Ohhhhhhhh....okay...that's awesome, thank you!  

So....this looks like a happy ending!  Everything has a bow on it...and all's well!  

FFFANKS EVERYONE!  I'm using the bike to go and finish some Christmas shopping, then. 

20 minutes ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

That's the way I've always done mine. So far the sky hasn't fallen down and no kittens have been harmed 

Ha, I say that..."Well, the sky didn't cave in, so I'm winning!"...but sorry..to clarify...which way?  Just from the middle up or from low to high? 

And do you have any thoughts on the adjuster plate being loose, like in the link, by any chance?  Thanks!

9 hours ago, billy sugger said:

Don't push the chain down. Take a steel ruler and hold against the bottom run, roughly in the centre between the wheel and front sprocket take a reading from the chain as it sits, the push chain up until it stops and then take another reading. That is how much play there is in the chain. 

 

PS, always find the tightest spot on the chain before measuring if possible

OH!  

So many vids on youTube push the chain down, take a measurement, then push it up (past the midpoint where it usually sits) up to the farthest point and then take a measurement...the gap being the slack.  But this is incorrect?  Haha...have I done all this to double the slack that was actually okay?    Got to just laugh, if that's the case. 

Sooo....thank you everyone....

An update...I was able to loosen the chain using the adjusters...even the bent one allowed enough turns so that I now have an inch chain slack, measured from near the centre stand, when it is up.  I have an inch from a low to high measurement, which is correct...I rolled the bike back and forth and remeasured...it seemed pretty consistent.  I figure that as long as the chain is adjusted well, I can ride it...and I can take my time getting a cheaper, second hand adjuster...have returned the £50 one!  I tightened the axle to 50lbs...as I believe is in spec??  I then remeasured the chain and it made it tighter (why?) but I repeated it all, tightened the axle and it's a good slack now.

The last part of this job is to ensure I had the wheel aligned after adjustment...(I did the same amount of turns on the nuts, but...yeah).  I measured from the centre of the swingarm pivot cap to the centre of the axle nut, on each side.  It measured the same, although measuring alongside the exhaust was awkward.  I went for a little ride and (apart from judders that I think were my imagination) it seemed fine. 

However....the adjuster plate on the right side is loose.  Should I be worried? 

Here's a vid of it (in a Google Drive link).
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bgNNR4CV5mq8qn9Zi2v1MAP73Btwrei3/view?usp=sharing

In my mind it indicated that the right side of the wheel should move forward....to make it snug.  

But so far....thanks so much for all the info and advice...I did take advice on avoid riding while the chain was tight...and this has all saved me money too!  Thanks!
 

Ohh, dear....well...looks like I can't ride for a bit, then...until I sit out on the pavement and sort it.  

Thanks for your help and advice....I'll get to it.  

Fun times!

Update...I have one on the way now....£50....was that or wait until New Year for secondhand.  Darn it.  But now...how to replace.....and can I ride the bike in the meantime?