Too many accidents on the Mod 1

[Guest]

Yet another person was injured performing the Mod 1. Inthe last ferw days of April, another person was injured and the site had to be closed for repairs to the fencing (reported in MCN) while on a DSA site practicing for the Mod 1. This is a long line of incidents and accidents since the introduction of the so called swerve test which MOST sensible people think is dangerous. Unlike MSN, I am not anti DSA, but I believe the test is poorly thought out and encourages accidents. The speed requirement is too high and should be brought down to 20mph. (some 125cc bikes struggle to get up to speed.) The 'stop element' after the swerve should be taken out altogether and replaced with an extended run-off area so a rider can slow down under control without fear of locking up the brakes and having an accident. This could then lead into a slow U-turn ready for the next part of the test.

The dangerous part of the swerve test is the marked box where a rider must come to a halt. In real world conditins a rider has a choice to either swerve around an object and then either carry on riding or to slow down in 'good' time and stop. OR - to perform an emergency stop to avoid the hazard. There is so much focus on the swerve test for the MOD1, it is starting to become part of a riders thought process that he/she MUST swerve around any hazard. Once this becomes 'automatic' riders will without thinking about it, attempt to swerve to avoid hazzards at very high speeds which will lead to untimely deaths.

How many more perople need to get injured before the process is changed. The fundamentals behind the swerve test are good ones, but when a test is increasing motorcycle casualties and not reducing them, it is time for a change. There are better ways of improving road safety and the current swerve test is not one of them. A large protion of the current MOD1 needs to be re-thought. If MOST training schools are unable to allow students to practice a full mod1 due to the lack of space, how then can the DSA enforce a test students have little or no experience of. Some schools dont even practice any part of the MOD1 at all. A 60% drop in people taking up biking and most of it is down to the fear of the MOD1 test. What are your thoughts as qualified bikers or learners.

[booboy]

totally agree mate,could do with someone taking them to court for their injuries,wunt like to think what would happen if this was happening on car tests my mate runs training school it impacted on him big time,its a feckin disgrace.

[GarethNW]

When I did my mod1 last year my test was cancled as the person before me crashed on the swerve test and damaged the tarmac, Not to mention broke her wrist and leg.

As this test is european and I beleave been operating for much longer in other countrys id love to know if they have as many accidents.

The problem I see is not the swerve at all, its the fact that there is not enough distance from the corner to the swerve itself. Why on the road would you come around a corner and then floor it to 30! your at the peak of your aceleration when u have to swerve even on a 500. They tell you to leave it in 2nd and just go for it!!!! Would be much safer if you could build to 30, hold ur spead and then swerve with plenty of time to stop after.

[Guest]

A 60% drop in people taking up biking and most of it is down to the fear of the MOD1 test. What are your thoughts as qualified bikers or learners.

 

It smacks of a governing body who is trying to dissuade people from taking up motorcycling altogether.

Obviously I read a lot about peoples experience of it on here, with varying types of feedback.

Its funny, I was only thinking about this on the bike this morning, and wondering whether or not I would pass a MOD1 test, if I was to take it today...

This is one of the more entertaining experiences from one of our newer members: http://www.themotorbikeforum.co.uk/view ... =3&t=30771

I personally think good training is worthwhile, but aspects of the test that do not pertain to the real world, I struggle to understand. Take the U turn for instance, not once have I done 'slow control U turn' since passing my test last century.

I understand it can demonstrate slow control .... but what else?

[Guest]

In almost every other part of the EU where this test is performed, the swerve and stop is broken down into seperate elements. Only in the UK did the DSA think it woudl be a good idea to combine them. It is the STOP part of the test that does the damage, not the swerve itself. The speed at 31.7kph was again stipulated by the DSA, not the EU. The DSA had the option of opting out of the speed requirement, but they did not. We are inthe situation that the UK has a GOLD -plated test which NO other country has. The layout of the MOD1 invites accidents and needs to be changed. The swerve needs to be just that with an extended run off area so students can slow the bike down under control. The DSA have introduced target fixation into a part of the test which is the stop box. It should never have been allowed.

[Guest]

An interesting observation.

Is it likely to be changed? Are moves afoot that may instigate this change? Is there anything that riders can do now?

[Guest]

And i totally disagree. Its well thought out.

Reason for doing it at 32?

Most people speed, at least a couple of mph over the limit.

Reason for swerve, and then controlled stop?

Cos its gonna bloody happen on the roads!! Has happened to me at least twice, and if i hadnt have practiced the swerve for my mod1, and regularly do a bit of practice around manholes and such, maybe those two incidents could have been nasty!

quite frankly, if you cant do a swerve in a controlled environment on good quality tarmac, how the f**k are you gonna be able to do it in normal everyday (dangerous) life.

Fucks sake.

Get a grip people. I'm sick of this bloody subject.

[GarethNW]

The speed is a conversion from 50kph which is a euro rule

Cobz I agree but on the road you dont have to razz it to 50kph u take ur time, as a learner you should have more room to perform the test

[Guest]

Doesn't mean it cannot be discussed Cobbz. Plus if you have read this guys other posts you'll know where he is coming from.

 

Reason for doing it at 32?

Most people speed, at least a couple of mph over the limit.

 

The reason it is 32mph Cobbz, is that its 50kph. ie .. in line with test standards in Europe.

 

Reason for swerve, and then controlled stop?

Cos its gonna bloody happen on the roads!!

 

I don't agree, in the real world, you will swerve. Thats it. Unless of course you swerve and then have to stop. But swerving round something ... there is normally space to continue riding in ...

[Guest]

Cobbz i dont think ive ever gone round a corner, rag the shit out of my bike right up to a point where i've had to swerve and stop.

I've done all of them, but not in one! I think that yes its a good idea, but its not exactly realistic, theres going to be space to move around (not some cones 1metre apart).

and if your ragging your bike in second gear up to the point where you almost hit something with out seeing it, then your worse than not being able to swerve at all.

But i do agree that it is a good idea in theory, harder tests means safer riders/drivers. (again in theory)

[Guest]

So, you dont think theres EVER gonna be the chance that u come round a corner accelerating, then see a pothole and have to swerve?

To be honest, the stop after the swerve isn't the bit people are f**king up on.

EDIT: And if it is, people need to learn they cant break and lean at the same time :S

[Aaron]

This is crazy. If you can't do the swerve without crashing then you shouldn't have a licence! If you crash doing this it demonstrates that you have a lack in either control of the bike, or knowledge of the physics involved to ride safely.

The test is so easy. And that's from someone who'd never even sat on a motorbike before starting a DAS course. The way i see it is who cares if it's a realistic scenario or not? It works perfectly well as a simple filter to weed out those who aren't ready yet.

If you can't even keep those fingers/toes off the brake when you know in advance of the swerve coming up, then how on earth are you going to not come off when it's a monkjack, or a kids football, or a dirty great hole in the road, or a car pulling out into the road? How are you going to have the discipline to keep those fingers off the front brake, despite all your natural instincts to grab a handful, when looking like running wide on 60mph bend with oncoming traffic?

I can only guess that *most* of the crashes are 125cc riders who haven't had any formal instruction?

As for practise.... a few half tennis balls layed out on an unfinished industrial estate.

Every time a rider crashes on the road it makes it more likely that the rest of us will face restrictions and enforcements. At least this test means that when we crash we can do so knowing that we made an effort to ensure we were capable first.

It's insane to imagine people being able to jump on a vehicle with BHP to weight ratios potentially approaching 1/1 nd not even being able to swerve a whole ten inches, or whatever, and stop in a box without creaming into the fence

[Ingah]

Reason for swerve, and then controlled stop?

Cos its gonna bloody happen on the roads!!

 

I don't agree, in the real world, you will swerve. Thats it. Unless of course you swerve and then have to stop. But swerving round something ... there is normally space to continue riding in ...

 

+1.

[Guest]

Ragging it round a corner and avoiding something? yeah, but you wont be expected to

A. rag it right up to the pothole

B. Brake hard afterwards

The problem is that people start to brake before they have straightened up... this can be done, BUT, braking hard whist still in a swerve will probably throw you off. The reason they are braking hard? Is because its a test, they dont want to fail. On on the road, they arn't under such pressure.

I agree there will be a freak instance where you may have to do the exact thing, but its very rare, and something that'll only really be worked out through experience.

I'm all for harder tests, and manoeuvres that may have to be performed on the road. but something thats going to be both realistic and something that is more likely to happen. E.g. E-stops, cornering with proper technique, swerving, etc.

swerving you say? thats in the test.... yes but swerving with space, not needing to rag it up to the swerve and braking afterwards, with only a meter space to move.

[2fast2soon]

I agree with Cobbz's sentiment, not necessarily his potty mouth

How many people who are having a go at the mod 1 have actually done it?

I've taken 3 mod 1 tests, 2 stupid fails on the figure 8 but never had a problem with the swerve. On a 500 it was easy to get up to speed, easy to swerve and there is plenty of time to come to a controlled stop. So much so that in one of my practice sessions I managed to bring the bike to a halt about 8-10 metres from the box without skidding.

If people can't do this then they aren't ready for the roads on their own. Its a test of control, does the rider have enough control to do 3 simple things in a linked sequence: get up to speed, swerve and stop in a box. Out on the roads we are doing far more than that as we have to contend with other road users and road furniture.

[Susieque]

I'd be interested in knowing if those of you that are saying the 'swerve' / avoidance isn't a problem took your test on 125 or 500???

[GarethNW]

500 for me

[Ingah]

I agree with Cobbz's sentiment, not necessarily his potty mouth

How many people who are having a go at the mod 1 have actually done it?

I've taken 3 mod 1 tests, 2 stupid fails on the figure 8 but never had a problem with the swerve. On a 500 it was easy to get up to speed, easy to swerve and there is plenty of time to come to a controlled stop. So much so that in one of my practice sessions I managed to bring the bike to a halt about 8-10 metres from the box without skidding.

If people can't do this then they aren't ready for the roads on their own. Its a test of control, does the rider have enough control to do 3 simple things in a linked sequence: get up to speed, swerve and stop in a box. Out on the roads we are doing far more than that as we have to contend with other road users and road furniture.

 

It is very very much harder to get up to speed on a 125 than a 500! Expecting a 125 to get up to a certain speed and stop in the same distance as a 500 does smack me as a little unfair.

Splitting the test into 2 elements like the rest of the EU sounds far more sensible as it removes the (unnecessary to my mind) element of risk from that test, whilst still allowing the 2 very important skills to be tested.

[Susieque]

This is what I was thinking - hence asking the question. And the brakes on a YBR aren't that sh*t hot either!

[Ingah]

This is what I was thinking - hence asking the question. And the brakes on a YBR aren't that sh*t hot either!

Nor on the CG (dual drums on most people's because they only put the discs on in 2003). And that's probably the 2 bikes that most of the tests are performed on.

[Guest]

I did it on an old battered SR 125 with a dodgy chain! One of the most underpowered 125s, with drum brakes and i weigh around 20 stone!

......

[GarethNW]

your my hero

[asharin]

The reason they are braking hard? Is because its a test, they dont want to fail. On on the road, they arn't under such pressure.

 

I think Chris just nailed it down right there. Test nerves, most people get them, they don't want to fail so they do something stupid. Giving them a little more room between the swerve and the stop would probably be all that is needed to prevent the accidents. Doesn't bother me personally, I'm pretty confident I could do the swerve/stop I just don't have the cash for the test right now..well I do, just the mrs has earmarked it for 'stuff that's more important' :/

Not a real problem, even if I could do and pass a test today I'd still be on a 125 for a few years as I like it enough to not worry about bigger bikes yet

Actually, is there even a mod 1 test centre near me yet? last I checked the nearest was 90 mile away :/

[2fast2soon]

I practiced the circuit on a 125 (YBR I think it was) and managed to get above 50 on my second, third and forth attempt so it is easily manageable. I also never had an issue stopping it. I'm by no means a good rider and was even worse back then as I had only been riding for 3 days.

If anyone thinks their 125 can't achieve the requirements, scrap it as it shouldn't be on the road!

[Aaron]

I practiced the circuit on a 125 (YBR I think it was) and managed to get above 50 on my second, third and forth attempt so it is easily manageable. I also never had an issue stopping it. I'm by no means a good rider and was even worse back then as I had only been riding for 3 days.

If anyone thinks their 125 can't achieve the requirements, scrap it as it shouldn't be on the road!

Guys.... the stopping distance is huge. If your brakes are that bad then chucking it back into first will practically do it all for you! (preferably on someone elses bike )

End of the day it all comes down to braking discipline. It's important.

As for 125 or 500.... i never tried on a 125. However if what you're all saying is true, then that should make a 125 easier to get the right speed! On the 500 there's a fine line between hitting the requirement and launching yourself up to mach 3 (well... at least alot faster than you want). You have to either judge it from practice, or keep a sneaky eye on the speedo or rev counter. If i had a little bike and knew that if i just pinned the throttle it would just about reach the required speed, then that's one less thing to worry about. Just pin it and start setting yourself up for the swerve part.

I personally think the stopping part at the end is quite a good idea. It tests whether you can avoid locking up the rear when you have more things to think about, rather than just the emergency stop where you have no distractions.

I should mention that I totally agree that test related nerves can make you do daft things. Hence my failing on the slalom But i know i'd rather suffer for my nervousness on the test than for my nervousness on the road.