ROSPA or IAM - Which one is better / the more demanding?

[Coume]

Hello,

I just did my BikeSafe Surrey yesterday and I really enjoyed it. Being a newbie (6month riding and only 2,000 miles), it did help to grow my confidence. I decided that I will move to the next step and either do a ROSPA training and an IAM one. I can't do both as the training seems to always be done on the first Sunday of the month.

I understand that both trainings are good but which one will make you a better rider? Which one is more difficult to get and will require a more extensive training?

Thanks in advance.

Ludo

[rennie]

any advanced training is good!

which is best depends on so many things!

individual examiners, weather, lots of things.

If I have to I'll go with ROSPA but it's 6 of 1

half dozen of the other

[2fast2soon]

I did a bikesafe earlier this month and the IAM guy agreed with me that my 6 months experience means I still don't have good bike control. I would do the IAM/ROSPA but I think I'm better off with learning to control the machine first before trying it as I wouldn't get as much from the training since I would be worrying about controlling the bike rather than position and observation.

That's the way I'm doing it anyway. Have already done a machine control course and am trying to book onto the more advanced one later in the year. Once thats sorted I'll probably go for IAM next year.

[Coume]

I did a bikesafe earlier this month and the IAM guy agreed with me that my 6 months experience means I still don't have good bike control. I would do the IAM/ROSPA but I think I'm better off with learning to control the machine first before trying it as I wouldn't get as much from the training since I would be worrying about controlling the bike rather than position and observation.

That's the way I'm doing it anyway. Have already done a machine control course and am trying to book onto the more advanced one later in the year. Once thats sorted I'll probably go for IAM next year.

 

Thanks. I was also wondering if I should not wait a bit until I have more miles under my belt... With who did you do your machine control course? I am booked with http://i2imca.com for August to do their MC1 & MC3.

Thxs

Ludo

[chiz]

I've heard that the IAM is equivalent to Rospa Bronze, I've also heard that you have to be re-tested for the Rospa qualification every so often (3 years?) Where as the IAM is a lifetime qualification.

Someone on here definitely knows as I'm sure it was on here that I read it

I know the IAM car doesn't need a re-test, I've had mine about five years now.

To be honest I'd be content with knowing I'm a better rider, the bit of paper isn't going to save your life, but the training could well do.

[Guest]

I did a week's training with RoSPA a couple of weeks ago. I've been riding since Sept last year and have about 6000 miles under my belt, and it felt like I was about ready. No point paying for more training if you're still sorting out the basics of balance and machine control, IMHO.

We did a mixture of classroom (if the hotel bar can be called that!) theory, observed rides, exercises and demonstrations, covering a range of subjects as well as taking time to focus on one or two things which I'd specifically asked to cover. It was very worthwhile, and to see the degree of observation the instructors were managing to maintain was quite literally an eye opener.

Bearing in mind I started the week as basically a novice rider, I was pleased to get my Bronze pass on the last day. I've no idea whether this would have been equivalent to an IAM test pass - though the examiner did tell me that if it had been a "diamond" test (some other advanced riding scheme, I believe), then I would have passed that too.

What I really got out of the week was a much better awareness of where my strengths and weaknesses are, so I now have a few specific areas to work on which will make me a better rider. I'm confident that I'll now be able to improve much more over the next few months' riding than I would have done otherwise. Once I feel like I've sorted the particular weaknesses the instructors picked up on, I'll probably try again for a Silver pass.

ps. RoSPA certificate lasts 3 years, then you have to re-take the test - so no getting complacent!

[2fast2soon]

Thanks. I was also wondering if I should not wait a bit until I have more miles under my belt... With who did you do your machine control course? I am booked with http://i2imca.com for August to do their MC1 & MC3.

Thxs

Ludo

 

That's the company I used - to quote Tony the Tiger, They're Grrreat.

My braking is much better now thanks to MC1 and I'm not as nervous going over rough ground as I know the bike isn't going to throw a fit as long as I don't induce one. I'm doing the MC3 in either August or September, well if the spaces are free.

I'm hoping the MC3 will get rid of the last of the chicken strips I'm pretty close to getting rid of the right one myself but the left is stuck in the same place its been for a while now, damn it to hell!!! I used to be better at left turns when I first started out, go figure!?!

One tip for you, take sun tan lotion as if its sunny you'll be standing around for quite a bit as the instructor goes through each lesson with you.

As for the ROSPA vs IAM stuff, what extra do you learn with the ROSPA silver and gold if bronze is the IAM equivalent?

EDIT: scratch that, I've googled it and its the same test, just a different pass mark:

Gold = ready for police test

Silver = bloody good and consistent

Bronze = better than average with advanced knowledge but not yet consistent.

[Guest]

There's only one test, but it's graded depending on how you perform. See:

http://www.roadar.org/riders/test/grading.htm

[Guest]

I dont think time has as much to do with your experience as miles does.

I've been riding since last August. Im pretty sure im alot better than if i had been riding a year but only done say 2,000 miles. Im also sure that i could have ridden since last August, but say i had done 20,000 miles, id be better than i am now.

I also think it depends on what weather you learn in, I was lucky, started in summer, so forgiving roads, but learnt on a bigger bike in winter, so had to ensure i didnt take things too far to or anything too silly. This (In my opinion) has put me in good place for this summer, where i can now build my higher speed riding (and normal riding) confidence and experience and bring it to the next level.

I think this is partly backed up by what i've seen others do / ride. The weekend / faired weather worriers dont seem to have very good low speed control, ok they may have been riding longer than i have, but im certain im better at riding through town than some of them are.... they always seem to stop and almost drop the bike or something!

again, similar this weekend. Had a guy on must have been an R1 overtake me (he was with someone else too), i stayed back in the 30 area and he pulled away, it wasnt even 30 seconds before i caught up with him on the twisties. Now i know this isn't concrete evidence but it does seem like miles has a better way of gaining experience than time does.

Hope i dont sound like i have a massive ego or something and sorry for the rant/off topicness!!

[2fast2soon]

I think you're right Chris, experience is really valuable. You can read up on the most advanced riding skills in the world but unless you put it into practice you won't be a good rider. I started only a little while after you and stopped for winter so you'll be much better at controlling the bike than me. Although if you don't go for training there's a chance your skills won't develop as quickly as they could.

There's a balance between the two to become as good as you possibly can be. I think IAM or ROSPA for someone who's only been riding for 2000 miles would be a slight waste of money, especially if he's been to bikesafe. Get the machine control sorted out, practice what you were taught in bikesafe then go for IAM/ROSPA when you think those skills have all become second nature to you.

[Guest]

I really should do advanced training, i know i should but i dont really want to nor be bothered.

id only forget it all lol.

but i bet its useful

i might start off with some books first and see if i can improve my riding that way.

[2fast2soon]

Have a look at a book called "sport riding techniques", although I can't condone such a thing, it can be found online in pdf format. I'm sure people only use that ability when they wish to sample it before buying it though

[Guest]

Certainly it'll do no harm to get yourself a copy of Roadcraft and have a read through it:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Motorcycle-Road ... 322&sr=8-2

If you don't fancy doing intensive training, I'd recommend trying a BikeSafe day. They're not expensive, it's a fun day out, and there's no substitute for having a qualified instructor take a look at your riding and giving you a few pointers.

[Coume]

Thanks for all the feedbacks.

2fast2soon - I am doing both MC1 and MC3 over a week-end mid August and I am very close to booking MC2 a week after. In fact, I am planing to go up North for MC1 &MC3 and then ride around Scotland for a week (for my vacations) and finish by MC2 the following Sunday...

 

Certainly it'll do no harm to get yourself a copy of Roadcraft and have a read through it:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Motorcycle-Road ... 322&sr=8-2

If you don't fancy doing intensive training, I'd recommend trying a BikeSafe day.

I was given this book as part of the BikeSafe day plus an highway code one.

Regarding the chicken strips, they were much smaller after following the cop through the twisty roads! What I found the most interesting was to see the trajectory that he was taking, before, during and after the turns, I really learned a lot. I always ride on my own as I don't know anyone who rides so watching an ace rider in action was invaluable. btw the coppers are so good, they are able to push your abilities even if you are very experienced rider (15y+ etc.). They tend to pair the students and the police riders based on their experience and expectations. For instance, my copper is not anymore in the Biker police, he spent something like 10years in the biker Police and is still a biker for fun but he is now a road accident investigator so he was with the beginner students/less challenging ones... but there was a student with his R6 for instance, 30-ish with 10 years riding experience that seemed very confident of his abilities so he got put with a copper (no other student with him) and by the look of things, the cop gave him a proper run for his money... One of the cops was also riding a R6 instead of his "work" bike to make it a bit more fun I guess...

Anyway, I decided that I will start with IAM and will move onto RoSPA next year. I like the idea that you need to renew your rospa diploma every 3 years and that there are several levels so it will keep me on my toes!

[Hoody]

I am a member of both IAM and RoSPA.

I hold a class 1 motorcycle certificate and I examine for RoSPA (cars and bikes)

First thing first - Once you have a full licence it is the right time to get further training. This is an ongoing thing and never stops, we still get re-tested annually. You never stop learning.

So forget this 'I only have 2000 miles experience' nonsense, the best time to learn is as soon as possible - particularly before getting into bad habits!

RoSPA and IAM both teach to the same standards, those of RoadCraft, although IAM have 're-written' there own version. It is exactly the same system, it has to be!

IAM - once passed is for life which IMO gives little incentive to keep on top of things hence bad habits can creep in if the rider doesn't remain part of the group post test.

RoSPA - Graded test, Bronze/Silver/Gold and a retest every 3 years.

The gradings can't be compared to IAM pass/fail - a rider could be any of the 3 grades under IAM but the pass is just a pass.

Under RoSPA Gold is a candidate who would do well on a Polcie Advanced course, Silver someone who understands the system but lacks 'polish', not as smooth/slick as they could be. A bronze is one who applies the system most of the time and is above that of a DfT rider.

IAM and RoSPA are both run by volunteers who have proved themselves with the discipline - there is no commercial gain.

There will be a joining fee for whichever is your local group, but after that all you pay is your tutors petrol when you go out.

The choice is yours really, do one, then the other, if you do IAM, keep up with the skills learnt and apply voluntarily every couple of years for re-test, if you go RoSPA you get that any way.

[2fast2soon]

Just out of interest Hoody, when did you pass your DfT test and then when did you do IAM/RoSPA?

And something not quite post related but I may as well tag it in here - IAM/RoSPA, what are their stance on 2 finger braking/clutch control?

Also roadcraft mentions accurately matching engine revs to speed when downshifting before releasing clutch - do you guys blip the throttle or actually twist throttle to what it would be then let go of clutch. i.e. how much knowledge of the gearing do you expect a rider to have?

Thanks.

[Coume]

So forget this 'I only have 2000 miles experience' nonsense, the best time to learn is as soon as possible - particularly before getting into bad habits!

 

Thanks Hoody, that was my idea in wanting to be trained properly straight away, avoid learning too many bad habits

[Guest]

Nice info there hoody.

Considering i have the next year to do nothing, i may start looking in to this then.

If naffin else will it lower my insurance? *

The thing is i dont like to do re-tests. It just add's pressure to me knowing ill have to do it all over again, which id hate. im not good at test's anyway.

googleing IAM now.

*this isnt the reason why i would do it, insurance is pretty darn cheap as it is!

[chiz]

...If naffin else will it lower my insurance? *...

...*this isnt the reason why i would do it, insurance is pretty darn cheap as it is!

 

Same here, I'm not worried about the cost of insurance, whatever price it is, I'll still pay it. That's why I don't feel the need to go through all the formalities of Rospa/IAM training and testing. I want to be a better rider, I don't need a bit of paper saying so.

A friend of mine has already said he'll take me out on an observed ride and identify any areas needing improvement, then we'll work on putting them right. He's not affiliated with any particular groups but has been riding/racing for 30+ years and has instructed in the past. I'm sure I'll learn a thing or two from him.

[Coume]

Just received a reply from the IAM guy and they have their next meet on Sunday, which I should be able to attend so it is perfect

btw, I also don't care about Diploma or insurance premium but I do want to become a better rider so any training I can get, will be more than welcome!

[TC1474]

As a senior RoSPA advanced motorcycle examiner, former IAM examiner and one of the team who wrote and delivered the RoSPA diploma course for many years, I concur with everything that Hoody has said.

However, a few years ago a common standard was agreed between RoSPA, The IAM, Diamond Advanced and the DSA where it was agreed that the IAM pass would be the equal of the RoSPA bronze simply because the IAM had no facility in place to seperate those who just scrape through to those who are of a really good standard.

However, I believe that this is now under review, and it may well be decided that an IAM pass becomes the equal of a Silver, but this has to be agreed by those higher up the chain than me.

In days when I used to run the diploma course (instructor qualification) we used to get IAM riders come on the course and much of the first day used to be spent getting these guys up to a standard that was acceptable (not all, but quite a few), and usually they went away much better riders than when they arrived. I belive the rules have since been relaxed.

To give you an idea of what an examiner is looking for and how a test is conducted, have a read through this http://www.themotorbikeforum.co.uk/view ... 47&t=27297

One thing to bear in mind with Bikesafe, is that depending on the Force area, not everyone uses class 1 riders and many are not qualified instructors, and it is only intended as an introduction to the principles of advanced riding.

[chiz]

Aha! So it was you I heard it from then!

[Coume]

Thanks a lot TC, very interesting posts!