Why doesn't my clutch work now...

[Ingah]

Before anyone starts thinking they're getting deja vu, please be aware i have posted this elsewhere too!

Have calmed down abit now, but i think i'll copy the original in here so you can see my frustration in all it's restrained glory:

Extremely annoyed, i know it's not my bike's fault that it's owner is mechanically quite inept, but it's supposed to be easy to work on!

Having struggled with great difficulty, taken much time, and spent much money (on tools and parts) through the process of replacing my friction plates, plain plates, oil shaft seal and associated needle bearing, i've put the bike back together to find that the clutch now doesn't work at all

Instinctively and in great frustation, i reached for my yellow pages to call someone out to do it for me, but in doing so i knocked a bank statement showing my out of control overdraft* and thus stayed my hand, resigning myself to another day tomorrow, undoing and re-doing, what i've already done (wrongly).

To explain the problem, it's as though the primary drive etc is still connected to the engine i.e. the clutch won't work at all - the rear wheel won't turn unless it's in neutral, no matter what (i tried adjusting the engine side clutch adjusters to both extremes to check that this was definitely the case). Edit: However, it is worth noting that i can and do feel resistance on the lever when it's adjusted correctly (but the rear wheel still acts like the clutch is connected to the engine i.e. that rear wheel still don't turn).

The clutch basket spun OK. when i was putting it back together...

I wasn't 100% sure that i'd done step 27 of the Haynes correctly when re-assembling so could anyone tell me if that would result in the clutch not working? It's the only obvious thing i can think of.

"27. Slide the clutch housing onto the sleeve of the input shaft, making sure that the teeth of the primary driven gear on the back of the housing engage fully with those of the primary drive gear, and that the pins on the oil pump drive sprocket engage with the slots on the back of the housing" (bold for the bit i'm not sure i did properly). I wasn't sure if i'd managed to get the clutch housing in all the way, because the driven gear on the back stuck out a tiny bit - it wasn't quite flush with the primary drive gear, despite much wiggling and pushing of the clutch housing, and also turning of the oil pump sprocket (as the Haynes manual indicated to do to get the pins and the slots to mesh).

The clutch apparently is backwards in my bike (CB500). I've attached a page of workshop manual in PDF format to show the components and layout of the clutch (it's not the manual i used - i used a Haynes, but the picture is excellent to see). Note to admins: As it's just one page, can it be left up for a while so that people are able to help me?

I'm hoping someone can tell me what i've likely stuffed up (probably a big ask as no one watched what i did, but maybe there's a common mistake that causes this?), and how to correct it with a minimum of additional stress.

Also, as i haven't ran the bike at all yet, can i reuse the engine gasket or do i need another one? (i can't get away without another clutch nut as i've already staked the replacement, so i'll have to pick one up tomorrow before soldiering on).

* = Not strictly true to actual events, but you get the idea.

CB5 Clutch2.pdf

Workshop manual clutch page 2, CB500

[eastanglianbiker]

if you have followed the picture guide only thing i can think of is that maybe you havent got the gear at back of clutch cage lined up correctly but you might have got it all put together in correct way and the plates need some time to bed in did u soak them in oil before fitting them

[Ingah]

if you have followed the picture guide only thing i can think of is that maybe you havent got the gear at back of clutch cage lined up correctly but you might have got it all put together in correct way and the plates need some time to bed in did u soak them in oil before fitting them

I coated each clutch plate in plenty of engine oil before putting them on. But when you say "soak" do you mean i should leave them in a tub of oil to "soak" or is "coating" them with oil enough? Because i didn't leave them to "soak" or anything, just sloshed oil over each one and made sure it covered both sides.

So it's also possible that if i keep pumping the clutch for a few minutes it may start working? I'll try that too.

[Guest]

take it apart,

Plates in engine oil for 24hours or overnight... this is recommended on each clutch post on Oldskoolsuzuki, even lock up clutches (drag racing)

then rebuild..

[Fozzie]

And sleep on it! Then when you take on the problem have a look at everything you need to concern yourself with in this job. Does it fit correctly? Is there any difference with how you did it and how the manual says to do it? I find the best thing is to sit and stare at it letting your mind wash over all the possible things and you soon figure it out

[Ingah]

Righty, took it apart, left the plates in the oil for a couple of days, found the thrust washer was in the wrong place, and this time properly aligned those tabs and pins up so the driven and driving gears are flush. It's now operating. However, the rear wheel (turning by hand to check it) isn't spinning nearly as freely as it should with the lever pulled in, irrespective of clutch adjustment. Almost like it's half on half off.

In neutral it spins freely as i'd expect but with clutch in and in gear, especially in the lower gears, there is alot of resistance, which goes away in higher gears. Is this resistance going to go away when I use it or is it still broken? I don't want to start the engine to find out otherwise i'll need another gasket (and/or new engine depending on what i've messed up ). So what do you guys think?

[Ingah]

Anyway, having done 20 miles on it today (testing), the clutch seems to be fine in use, and much of the extra resistance has gone. However, that said, even now when i turn that wheel, i can feel a fair amount of extra resistance that didn't used to be there with the clutch lever held in and i'm not sure whether to be concerned about it, or whether it's something that will go away as the friction plates etc bed in. In the end, it wasn't like this before... which makes me concerned.

So it is perfectly normal to feel greatly increased resistance after a clutch change? (i was comparing it to how it used to feel doing the same before i changed the clutch as i've needed to do it on many occassions to sort out drum brakes etc). It wouldn't spin, you really had to force it to turn.

To try to explain:

Put it in neutral and it spins easily, next to no resistance.

When in gear, and clutch lever is not pulled in, the wheel will turn about maybe 1/10th to 1/20th a revolution (i.e. a small way), and then *thunk* won't go any further unless you put a huge deal of force to overpower it (i.e. all's normal with that).

When in gear, and the clutch lever is pulled in all the way, the wheel will turn (not so easily though) until it hits the same spot it would above - i.e. 1/10th to 1/20th of a revolution, and then it doesn't really want to turn, and more pressure than expect must be used to get it to overcome this partial barrier, and it will continue, but pressure must be used (Note: This is less severe resistance than before, where it needed to be forced hard all the way round but still noticeably different than before the clutch was changed. Also note: Clutch adjustment is not the issue, freeplay is correct).

[Guest]

Sounds like clutch drag, its pretty normal tbh, ive had it (once tried starting in gear on a cold day and the bike dragged me forward) think its more the oil in-between the clutch plates rather them in direct contact.

checking the clutch adjustment and fresh bike oil sorted it (used to get it where id pull the clutch in and the rear wheel would drag slightly, but the bikes had fresh oil like 4 times since i got it )

Also when i got it, it had hardly been used in 10 years.. so may explain it.

EDIT: also just using it you'll probably find it may sort its self out ?

EDIT: Counting its had (not including the oil and filter that was in it when i first got it)

(pretty sure)

4 Oil changes

2-3 Oil filter changes

..that was in less than several thousand miles, hell, in less than a year too

[Guest]

ingah, sounds about right, if you've ever bumped a bike (in gear, clutch in) you'll find theres more effort required than when in neutral..

[Guest]

ingah, sounds about right, if you've ever bumped a bike (in gear, clutch in) you'll find theres more effort required than when in neutral..

 

Think his problem is that when its in gear but clutch pulled in meaning it should be totally disengaged. But he is still receiving resistance....

Not that it really matters anyway, if you are really concerned then put it in neutral at traffic lights