Lessons or not?

[Anton17]

Well I've been on the road just over a month and so far I am absolutely loving being on a bike. Haven't had any issues (touch wood) apart from pulling out a bit too soon on blind junctions, and I think with a month or two more on the road there won't be anything wrong with the way I'm riding.

I failed my CBT the first time after never having been on a bike or the roads before due to tiredness (slept 3 hours before test) and instructor didn't think it would be good for me to go on the road. Came back a few days later and passed. Since then I've been out and about. Was a little daunting at first and caused a few hiccups but I feel a lot more natural with the bike and the roads so it's doing me a lot of good. I feel I'm progressing each time I'm out on it. I intended to wait about 6 months for more experience and then go and take my Mod 1 and 2, but without tempting fate I feel good to roll with it and take my test before Christmas.

Just went to my local bike school and he quoted me £470-£570 for lessons and then the test fees on top of that, and said they won't put you straight into for a test until you've done some lessons. I think that's fair enough, but for £130 a pop per lesson I don't feel like I'll get enough out of it to really justify the money.

I am thinking that even if I went and booked through DSA direct and go straight in for my Mods, fail, and have to do them again, I'd end up learning more about anything I did wrong and it would still work out a lot cheaper.

What are your opinions? My money is very tight lately but I could afford to pay for the tests in the next couple of months so that's why I'm thinking of diving straight in. Do I need more experience and/or should I pay the extra 400 notes for a few lessons?

I'm pretty sure I still want to dive in and go for it but I just wanted some opinions. Did you take lessons? Or did you just go for the test? If so, how did you do?

[Guest]

I've literally just finished doing lessons at Hinckley RTS. They are a charity organisation and work on a volunteer basis and therefore offer INCREDIBLY good prices.

I think I paid £240 for 7 lessons worth (passed in 6 ) with one a week including bike hire. They have really experienced tutors and if you are not ready to pass within the 7 weeks they will give you free lessons until you do (to a reasonable extent)

As far as I can see Tamworth is only 17 or so miles away from Hinckley, so a nice easy ride through the country roads which could give you a tad more experience too and from

Hope this helps, they were brilliant for me and I learnt so much with them

James

Edit: Just happened to be reading the rules and noticed I may not be allowed to post links. I'll take it down just in case it's breaking that rule, wasn't really trying to advertise as such but could be misconstrued. Place is called Hinckley RTS anyway, easily googlable

Edited October 23, 2009 by Anonymous

[Mightycaz]

I think most places will do an assessment day for about £25. From that they will normally say if you need lessons or not, I went for one a couple of weeks ago and they said I was ready to jump straight into the MOD 1 practice and go from there!

[gilly_uk]

i haven't had any lessons yet passed mod 1 this monday and going to book mod 2 next week.

[Bogof]

I'm pretty sure I still want to dive in and go for it but I just wanted some opinions. Did you take lessons? Or did you just go for the test? If so, how did you do?

 

Bear in mind that lessons have at least 2 purposes.

1. To enable you to pass the test.

2. To enable you to ride safely.

You can probably blag 1 with a bit of luck and some self-taught self-paced practice sessions.

Do you want to risk your life on 2 though?

OK that's a bit melodramatic to be fair, but it's a tough life on a bike and the training is designed to equip you to cope with it safely. Personally I would not be happy without some professional training.

[Guest]

I can't believe I'm gonna say this .... ....

[Anton17]

I'm pretty sure I still want to dive in and go for it but I just wanted some opinions. Did you take lessons? Or did you just go for the test? If so, how did you do?

 

Bear in mind that lessons have at least 2 purposes.

1. To enable you to pass the test.

2. To enable you to ride safely.

You can probably blag 1 with a bit of luck and some self-taught self-paced practice sessions.

Do you want to risk your life on 2 though?

OK that's a bit melodramatic to be fair, but it's a tough life on a bike and the training is designed to equip you to cope with it safely. Personally I would not be happy without some professional training.

 

As I understood it the CBT was put in place to enable you to ride safely... I thought a test was to confirm that you are at a capable standard to be able to ride safely and well enough that you do not require L plates to warn other road users that you are new.

I've been on the road for over a month now like I said and I would have thought if I were really that bad/unsafe of a rider I (or someone else) would have noticed it by now. I have never been in a car and only know the rules of the road by the bike and I think that has helped me since I know if I do something wrong there's a fair chance it won't just be a scrape so you need to do as much as humanly possible to ensure nothing goes wrong. I don't think I'm a perfect rider yet but I think in the next couple of months I'll be well enough to pass my test and then carry on from there, was just wondering whether that was a good idea or not.

[Guest]

Clue is still in the name though....

Compulsory basic training.

And, you never stop learning.

[Guest]

Clue is still in the name though....

Compulsory basic training.

And, you never stop learning.

 

Agreed.

[Anton17]

I don't doubt that, but I was trying to say... oh, nevermind.

[Bogof]

As I understood it the CBT was put in place to enable you to ride safely... I thought a test was to confirm that you are at a capable standard to be able to ride safely and well enough that you do not require L plates to warn other road users that you are new.

 

CBT was introduced to ensure that all bikers started out with a basic level of competence. It is not, however, a test and it does not provide training to test standard.

Go ahead and take the test without further training if that's what you want to do.

You might be lucky, you might pass.

We might be lucky and you fail, which then prompts you to access further training, and THAT will make the roads a safer place for all of us

[Pete]

Do you go riding with any other bikers? I'm not a million miles away from you and if you fancy a ride around with me every now and then I'd be up for it. I'm no tutor and don't claim to be a certified advanced rider but might be able to offer tips here and there.

However, the odd tip here and there from a more experienced rider is nothing compared to paying for lessons. I'm all for sharing knowledge and helping you out if you're up for it...but the best way is to bite the bullet and get the lessons.

PM me if you fancy a ride out somewhere

[Anton17]

Sorry, the reason I posted was to ask if lessons were worth the wait and how I'd fair in taking a test without the lessons, not if I'm a safe rider (which may or may not be a part of it). If I was unsure on the roads and not confident I wouldn't be skipping ahead of myself and thinking about the test - I'd think about spending longer on the roads and lessons. What I'm saying is I feel very sure of the roads, I like being out on them, I still have a couple of months before realistically taking a test and all the more time to become a better rider.

Having said that I am going to give that place in Hinckley a call since it's down a straight road from me and see what they say - I think I am going to go ahead and take Mod 1 without lessons since I'm not on the road and it's just maneuvers (the worst that could happen is I lose £15) and then see how I fair on Mod 2 lessons.

[Juniper]

Bear in mind that lessons have at least 2 purposes.

1. To enable you to pass the test.

2. To enable you to ride safely.

You can probably blag 1 with a bit of luck and some self-taught self-paced practice sessions.

Do you want to risk your life on 2 though?

OK that's a bit melodramatic to be fair, but it's a tough life on a bike and the training is designed to equip you to cope with it safely. Personally I would not be happy without some professional training.

 

I agree with Bogof.

I'm new to biking too and when I did my CBT I thought I had been taught everything I should have been taught in a CBT. I thought I had received good training. As it turns out, my CBT training wasn't as good as it should have been. I've recently done some training with a different bike school and realise how little I really learnt on my CBT. "Basic" training is definitely what I got from my CBT.

I think some bike schools seem to teach you how to pass a test and nothing more. In the last few weeks I've chatted with quite a few people learning to ride (like I am) who have made it quite clear they are only doing any training to help them get that pass certificate. I think it's a shame that some people look at the training as just a way to help them pass, instead of a way to learn to ride safely.

I reckon money spent on GOOD training is money well spent. Some people feel they don't need training, I did need it and still do and don't regret spending any of the money I have spent on it so far. Good luck with your tests whichever way you decide to go for it

[Pete]

Hmmmmm sez I. The "danger" I think that comes with folk riding round for a while with just a CBT and then going straight for their test is that they can get into very bad habits...which aren't good for a test. The test is quite rigid and it's more than maneuvers that need to be ticked off, general riding plays a very big part of the test (hence why there's a module 2 as well!).

Obviously I can't comment on you as an individual and your riding, but I'd be wary going straight from riding on a CBT straight to your test without "proper" lessons. Thumbs up for contacting the folk at Hinckley. An assessment ride would be great.

EDIT: Just re-read your post about doing mod 2 with lessons. Yes, I agree.

Edited October 23, 2009 by Pete

[Juniper]

Sorry, the reason I posted was to ask if lessons were worth the wait and how I'd fair in taking a test without the lessons, not if I'm a safe rider (which may or may not be a part of it).

 

You might do really well in the test without lessons, I'm sure lots of people do! Surely though, however safe you are now, you would be even safer with lessons given by an experienced instructor?

[Anton17]

I am not ignorant to the posts and I do appreciate it.

The biggest thing I was worried about was being naive and jumping in only to get flattened by instructors telling me all the things I did wrong. I do believe in riding safely, and above generally being a good rider, and I think most of it comes with time and experience.

I kind of feel that riding on L plates and a CBT gets you into a sort of limited mind frame, but I try not to let that affect the way I ride. I mean as in 'I'm not a full rider yet, I don't have to ride like a real rider' kind of thing. I think people do do that and when I first got out on the road I felt like the odd one out and everyone was thinking 'What a muppet!'. I've been going out a lot on town and country roads and my confidence and riding ability has shot up a lot, I feel. I went riding at night a lot and have gone out several times in busy traffic on purpose. Night riding gets you used to the roads in general with a little less pressure, and busy times get you used to other drivers and how to react.

I've seen the print out of the Mod 1 diagram and seen the videos so I have a good understanding of what to look for. I plan on getting to a quiet private road on an industrial estate to practice low speed figure of 8 and slalom and U-turns. The swerve I will only really know when I get there and I'm fine with emergancy stops. I have to do a lot of manual handling to fit it in the garage so I know how to handle the bike without an engine.

I will probably practice for a while until I get my theory done, go and do a Mod 1 without lessons to see how I do. If I pass, great, if not I'll evaluate what went wrong and either try again or get lessons for that. I'll give Hinckley a call and ask for an assessment ride, maybe ask the instructor to do a mock Mod 2 test to see what I may do wrong and what I need to work on, and then general training.

Having fun on a big bike is only part of it and there's no point in trying to do it if you're going to come flying off, but I have a good head on my shoulders so I'm not constantly overtaking, sprinting up the roads and dangerously performing junctions, but I am learning each time I go out. I think I wanted to take Mod 2 just to see where I was at since I feel pretty good. I understand safety first but when you start out the learning and progress comes so fast you get caught up and think 'What can I learn next?' and that's where I am at.

Thanks to all replies and I'll let you know what happens.

[gilly_uk]

I agree with both sides of the arguement on here. Whereas you cant deny proper instructor training will be very advantagous to a biker I do also feel that experience on your own on the roads is also a must. If you manage to pass the test without lessons then you are no different to someone that has paid to do a 3 day DAS lesson. I hear of people that go from CBT right through to fully licensed within a week.

I have been riding on CBT now for a year having driven for 5 years previous. I know all about observations, mirrors spacial awareness etc etc. I passed my module 1 on Monday after one failed attempt which I wasn't all to fussed about. And I intend to do my module 2 in the next few weeks. The examiner is going to be looking at me in the same way as someone that has been taking lessons for months and will mark me the same. So if I pass then I believe that I am just as safe as any next person that has passed just managed it without lessons. Everyone can become a safe rider if they take there time and are sensible. I have no doubt that if I fail my test then I will seek training maybe after my second attempt and see what it is im failing on.

It is going to take many years to get experience riding and you will always be learning as road conditions differ, weather conditions change etc.

So personally I think I mixture of both is the best way forward but just wasn't a route that I took. You will never replace what you learn on training with an experienced instructor and you will never replace the experience you pick up on the road on your own. Give the tests a go if you pass then congratulations and enjoy riding safely. If you dont pass then seek some lessons and go from there.

At the end of the day you want to be safe and enjoy the ride safely. And I think that everyone on here wants the exact same for you. Hence why they want you to pursue lessons... To make sure you are safe on the road.

[Bogof]

If you manage to pass the test without lessons then you are no different to someone that has paid to do a 3 day DAS lesson. I hear of people that go from CBT right through to fully licensed within a week.

You will never replace what you learn on training with an experienced instructor

 

Those 2 statements I have quoted are contradictory. And with respect, you are missing the point.

The training is not JUST to get you through the test, so if you skip the training... You will never replace what you learn on training with an experienced instructor... no matter how much experience you get by riding on the road, it is the instruction element that you will miss out on. And that makes you different to someone that has paid to do a 3 day DAS lesson... since they will have received that instruction

[Controversy]

For what it's worth, in my view both should be compulsory. A specified number of hours of skilled instruction mixed in with a specified number of hours on the road filling in a log book. As things stand at present, it is far too easy to get on the road (CBT) and too easy to get a full licence (DAS). And as for the current setup where after 2 years restriction (A2) you can jump on a 1000cc bike with NO experience on a bike bigger than 125cc, utter madness!

[/Controversy]

[gilly_uk]

I agree that it should be compulsary to take lessons and think the log book idea is a great.

I totally agree with the 125cc step up to a 1000cc after 2 years with no experience but not really sure how they could change this. I personally would never make that step and have already decided that a 600cc is the biggest bike I will ever need. But dont quote me on this, in 10 years time if i buy a thou

[Bogof]

I agree that it should be compulsary to take lessons and think the log book idea is a great.

I totally agree with the 125cc step up to a 1000cc after 2 years with no experience but not really sure how they could change this. I personally would never make that step and have already decided that a 600cc is the biggest bike I will ever need. But dont quote me on this, in 10 years time if i buy a thou

 

My GSX600F lasted me 10 weeks before I got bored with it, so then got a VTR1000 Firestorm. 4 weeks later I'm sitting nursing a broken wrist so am unable to ride anything at present. Sometimes I wonder...

[Anton17]

I agree with both sides of the arguement on here. Whereas you cant deny proper instructor training will be very advantagous to a biker I do also feel that experience on your own on the roads is also a must. If you manage to pass the test without lessons then you are no different to someone that has paid to do a 3 day DAS lesson. I hear of people that go from CBT right through to fully licensed within a week.

I have been riding on CBT now for a year having driven for 5 years previous. I know all about observations, mirrors spacial awareness etc etc. I passed my module 1 on Monday after one failed attempt which I wasn't all to fussed about. And I intend to do my module 2 in the next few weeks. The examiner is going to be looking at me in the same way as someone that has been taking lessons for months and will mark me the same. So if I pass then I believe that I am just as safe as any next person that has passed just managed it without lessons. Everyone can become a safe rider if they take there time and are sensible. I have no doubt that if I fail my test then I will seek training maybe after my second attempt and see what it is im failing on.

It is going to take many years to get experience riding and you will always be learning as road conditions differ, weather conditions change etc.

So personally I think I mixture of both is the best way forward but just wasn't a route that I took. You will never replace what you learn on training with an experienced instructor and you will never replace the experience you pick up on the road on your own. Give the tests a go if you pass then congratulations and enjoy riding safely. If you dont pass then seek some lessons and go from there.

At the end of the day you want to be safe and enjoy the ride safely. And I think that everyone on here wants the exact same for you. Hence why they want you to pursue lessons... To make sure you are safe on the road.

 

 

If you manage to pass the test without lessons then you are no different to someone that has paid to do a 3 day DAS lesson. I hear of people that go from CBT right through to fully licensed within a week.

You will never replace what you learn on training with an experienced instructor

 

Those 2 statements I have quoted are contradictory. And with respect, you are missing the point.

The training is not JUST to get you through the test, so if you skip the training... You will never replace what you learn on training with an experienced instructor... no matter how much experience you get by riding on the road, it is the instruction element that you will miss out on. And that makes you different to someone that has paid to do a 3 day DAS lesson... since they will have received that instruction

[Controversy]

For what it's worth, in my view both should be compulsory. A specified number of hours of skilled instruction mixed in with a specified number of hours on the road filling in a log book. As things stand at present, it is far too easy to get on the road (CBT) and too easy to get a full licence (DAS). And as for the current setup where after 2 years restriction (A2) you can jump on a 1000cc bike with NO experience on a bike bigger than 125cc, utter madness!

[/Controversy]

 

You know I agree with you both, how ever ironic it may be. I know what I have to do to be a good rider and some of I cannot simply force by going out on the roads, but I am not likely to just get the test done to say I have a license, more that I am on my way to being a full biker.

There are some people who will blow my mind with being on a 125 then straight up to a 600/1000 with no restrictions, and for those people I do worry about. I am planning on getting a restricted 600 simply to help with the gear changing, setting off from a stand still and overtaking - plus the more bike experience since I am sure it is a big jump in actual quality of the bike. I find my 125 sticks in places and I think it's due to it being restricted, and for all it doesn't affect my ride, it is annoying at times - hill starts especially!

I don't want to jump on massive bike and go head first into oncoming traffic, but I want to expand my riding world sooner than I expected, and no doubt I will be taking lessons for my Mod 2. (Cheers for the Hinckley tip again )

Thanks again for all replies.

[Guest]

For what its worth I was in the same situation as you. I had passed my CBT and was looking for a cheap way of getting a full licence.

After a couple of hours on a 500cc at a local school, and talking to the instructors there, they recommended I just go for the test and don't have more lessons (due to me being tight and having no more days off, I couldn't take anymore time off work). I have my own YBR 125 on which to practice to my hearts content and put myself through the test.

The reasoning being, attempt mod 1 (cost £10ish) and you fail, well, at least you know where your weak points are and I believe its just experience and confidence on U turns, figure of 8 etc. People can tell you how to do a u turn, but for me it was just practice, practice, practice till it clicked for me. For me this worked out well. I was so nervous on Mod 1, failed due to low speed on the avoidance, but 2nd time around I knew exactly what I had to do and passed. So for a total of £20 ish Mod 1 passed.

Same with Mod 2. They said as I had passed my CBT and survived 6 months on the road - riding rain or shine I should just go for it. Mod 2 (£80 ish) well, thats still cheaper than lessons, and the instructor will tell you where your weak points are if you fail. If you just listen to the examiner, he will tell you what you need to do to pass.

For me, I failed Mod 2 due to some speed limit confusion on my part (FYI doing 40 in a 30 = a fail ) but I have my next Mod 2 booked for next week. I am feeling a lot more confident and I think I will pass, but time will tell.

BUT, big BUT here - I do have over 10 years car driving experince. I seem (along with many long time car drivers) seem to have developed almost a 6th sense. You know (well, sometimes) when some dumbass is going to change lanes, cut you up etc. I already have a good amount of on road experience, albeing on 4 wheels not 2, it still helps.

I think if you are totally new to driving, it may be a good idea to get some lessons, if your already a long time car driver, maybe not so much. Worked for me and I was definatley not a natural to bike riding.

So for a total of £20 on mod 1s and £160 on Mod 2s, assuming I pass mod 2 take 2 that is, going from CBT to full (restricted) licence for £180! That would have got me 1 days training...

[gilly_uk]

Yeah I have 6 years car driving which has helped with road awareness etc and that sorta 6th sense. At first when I did my CBT it seemed my driving experience didn't help at all, i had that tunnel vision but now im comfortable on the roads and aware of whats around me.