Battery not being charged

[G-TT600]

I took my triumph out today for the first time in a good while, It started well initially, on the button straight away.

I drove about a mile, to get fuel (fortunately with my father and jump leads) after filling the tank, obviously it wouldn't start,

I wheeled it out of the forecourt and gave it a jump where it turned over a couple of times but started fine.

Thinking maybe it could have been where it was stationary in the Garden, I took the 30 mile scenic route home, thinking it would charge it.

I turned her off and immediately couldn't start it.

After again starting with a Jump I measured the Voltage at the battery at 11.4V while the bike was running

Also I changed the Regulator Rectifier about a month ago to fix a drain on the battery, so this part is new

[Matt Strange]

The first things I would check is if to see if there is continuity between the positive wire at the voltage regulator wiring plug back to the battery +, and then for the negative wire at the plug back to the battery -

[Guest]

hmm, i thought that running voltage was around 14 volts???

because to charge any battery, the voltage has to be higher than what your wanting to charge?

EG: you couldnt charge a 12v battery with a 10v power source...

But anyway, with a flat battery, being only a few volts, 11 volts would atleast charge a little. enough to start it surely!

Perhaps the battery is naff.. Pb batteries dont like to be ran flat out of juice..

i believe it oxidises the lead plates???

perhaps someone could shed some more light on it though..

[Tango]

Check the connections around the reg/rec and make sure the plug isn't cooked. Did the voltage rise as you revved the bike? Are the battery terminals tight? Could be that the Stator is duff.....or the new reg/rec is stuffed......a bit more measuring with the meter is required......see how much voltage is coming into the reg/rec from the stator.......could also be a duff battery, that's dragging the voltage down.......stick it on charge overnight and see what it's voltage is without any load on the bike and then switch the bike ignition on and see how quickly the voltage drops.....

[eastanglianbiker]

the tt600/speed4 electrics ae known to be problems there is a thread on here somewhere about them from rik398 as seen here viewtopic.php?f=5&t=45080

[G-TT600]

I shall check for continuity, as that seems simple enough.. how do I identify which of the wires at the R&R are the Stator, +ive and -ive.

The terminals are tight, one of the first things I checked as I know the monkey who fitted the battery (it was me)

I felt I eliminated the duff battery with the fact that the bike initially started under it's own steam, fresh out from under it's cover?

[Tango]

The battery may have just had enough to start the bike.....but it's not taking a charge now......so, the best way to check is to charge it overnight and then put it back into the bike and do the off load/ on load checkand see how quickly the voltage drops on load.....

Was it a new reg/rec you fitted, or secondhand?......could be that the reg/rec has died....

The plug to the reg/rec should have 3 yellow (or same colour wires) going to it....these will be the wires from the stator.....the other 2 wires will be the +ve and -ve from the reg/rec.....so, just measure across these 2 wires at the reg/rec if you can......and see if the voltage is any different to that measured at the battery......if so, you've got a dodgy connection or wiring between the reg/rec and the battery.....

[G-TT600]

I will put it on charge through the night now and get back to you all in the morning.

It was a new R&R I fitted but I have read that when they die they can fry the Stator windings, so I may have to have a look at those too.

Thankyou for all advice. I will let everyone know what I find tomorrow hopefully

[G-TT600]

Ok... well, I have been using my multimeter to the best of my ability.

I have continuity through both +ive and -ive terminals to the respective R&R wires.

Battery Voltages are as followed:-

once I pulled it off charge :- 13.09

Fitted, Ignition off :- 12.70

Ignition on, headlights on :- 12.27 + Holding

Bike running at Idle :- 12.20

Revving bike to 5K :- 12.48

This mean anything to anyone? I am still at the bike and will carry on testing

Also, the three pin plug at the Stator end is a bit black and charred.

[Tango]

You should get more than that when revving the bike.......and I don't like the sound of the connections from the Stator......obviously the stator and reg/rec are doing something......just not enough.... Try cleaning the connections from the stator if you can.....they're obviously overheating, which points to high resistance connections.....

[Stu]

probe the red and black wires as close to the reg rec as you can whilst running to see what voltage you have there

if its higher than at the battery then you have a wiring problem stopping the charge to the battery

also check what voltage you are getting from the stator it should be as high as 70v

[G-TT600]

may have done a little boo boo lol... am I right in saying it doesn't matter which way around the three wires from the stator reach the Regulator? I cut the two plugs off to replace them, but forgot to mark the wires which order they go.

I have also noticed that the + - wires close to the Regulator are getting quite hot whilst the bike is running

[Stu]

yup it doesnt matter

if the plus wires are getting hot you have high resistance somewhere

[G-TT600]

there's currently 12.5V coming from the Regulator, and 11.9V at the Battery, I feel this Voltage drop could be due to the lights and fan being on, but I could be wrong

[Stu]

you should be getting more than that at the reg rec

what about at the yellow wires? you should be getting close to 70v on each wire

[G-TT600]

I'm only getting about 15V(ac) from each of the Stator wires, at least that's the figures I'm seeing. I am no electrician though;

just to confirm, set the Voltmeter to AC.

Pos lead to the Stator wire,

Neg to the battery Neg.

Let me know if I'm doing it wrong lol

[Guest]

Thats fine then..

Now worth checking the Regulator/rectifier.. illiminate that from the list too..

also could be your battery..

As i mentioned Pb batteries dont like being run flat and left there.. kills them

[G-TT600]

I'm rather inclined to say that my stator has had it? the resistance seems to be correct (low), but it doesn't seem to want to produce the voltage figures required.

Is it easy to check the Stator? will I need to drop the oil?

[Tango]

No mate......you need to be measuring the AC voltage across pairs of Stator wires.....so, each of the yellow wires to the others.....ie, 3 pairs of wires if you see what I mean.....

[G-TT600]

I shall have another look

[Stu]

Read this if you don't need to sign in

This applies to all bikes

http://www.tlzone.net/forums/frequent-t ... hread.html

[G-TT600]

I probed the yellow wires while it was idle an only got 11 volts AC should I disconnect the plug and probe the pins instead?

[G-TT600]

I think that thread is the same as the Triumphrat.net thread that I'm using for reference.

[G-TT600]

does anyone know whether the stator housing is dry? or whether I need to drop the oil?

[Tango]

Stator housing should be dry.....

I lifted this from the Triumph Rat......D'Ecosse's wise words.....

Next, examine the wires and connectors between the stator output and the R/R input (three wire harness and connectors) – are these charred/melted due to excessive heating? This is fairly common result of poor connection between the mating terminals. See later in thread for examples of this issue & suggested replacements.

Next, do a resistance check on the stator (check at the cable connector going back towards the stator itself).

This test is typically unlikely to show any definitive issue, whether good or bad - unless there is a complete open circuit to one pin, perhaps indicating broken wire connection

Some guides suggest you can see a difference between the readings if there is a burned coil - highly unlikely that you have a meter that is capable of differentiating.

So really just looking for basic continuity here.

Measure between the three respective combinations of the three pins:

1-2

2-3

3-1

This time each of these should measure almost short circuit (very low resistance in order or about 1 ohm)

This next check is probably the simplest/quickest way of determining a stator problem

- in majority of cases a bad stator will be indicated by failing following test:

Check resistance from any one pin to the engine ground terminal – this should not read any indication – maximum resistance or open-circuit.

If you read ‘short’ in that last test, then your stator is bad.

(if open, it is not quite guaranteed your stator is good however - but in majority of cases a failed stator will fail this isolation test)

Check the AC voltage output from the stator with engine running:

Leave stator disconnected from the R/R and start the engines.

With meter set to read AC Volts check

1-2

2-3

3-1

All three should be the same value – any significant difference of one reading will indicate a bad phase and the stator is probably defective.

At idle this should be ~ 20V* and rise to ~ 70V* at 5K rpm.

I hesitate to use absolute numbers here as this can be different between models and test equipment and especially the engine rpm!

What you are looking for is same value between phases and like increase on each phase as rpm increases.

If any of the above tests raises suspicion, pull the cover & inspect the stator. It is simple to do and can set your mind at ease by seeing what it looks like. Hopefully NOT with 1/3 of it a black charred mess!

See if this helps at all.....