electrical gremlins

[mealexme]

When working on the bike late the other night, I was a little heavy handed and in a bit of a rush putting everything back together. In doing so, I tugged on the electrical loom to the rear (wires from the fuse box to the indicators, rear light and alarm system).

The next day I realised the rear indicators were staying on (on solid, not flashing) no matter if I had them on by the switch or not. If I turned them on by the switch, the rear stayed on and the front flashed faster then normal, so I disconnected them and just forgot about it until I found time sort it.

Upon finding time, I connected them back and all worked fine, for a while. Until I started to realise the dipped headlights werent always coming on until I hit the ignition switch, then they would come on, yet the full beam works regardless.

After scratching my head for a bit, I believe I have noticed the problem of the rear indicators staying on and headlight going off happen at the same time, but it usually gets back to normal once the engine is started and doesnt happen often

Then, I started playing with the indicators every time I turn the keys, before turning the engine on, and found the left hand indicator normally flashes fast, the right sometimes flashes fast, but not always and the hazards no longer work with the ignition off and the keys out (they used to), but work fine with it on

I have just been out there, looking over the wiring, making sure nothing is pulled out or shorting out and I can't see anything unusual. The only REALLY unusual thing I have found, is that the indicator flash rate actually start flashing normal if I push the indicator switch in slightly, just before it cancels, then let go. Obviously this points towards a switch problem, right? Well, except the same thing happens if I mirror it with the ignition switch, ie press it in half way, then let go and the indicators return to normal.

What the hell is going on?

[Stu]

Possibly bad earth

[mealexme]

I was hoping so. One wire somewhere causing it all would be a nice quick fix, except I don't have a clue when it comes to electrics.

Presumably the earth will be bolted onto the frame of the bike? If so, any idea where I should start looking?

[acting_strange]

I was hoping so. One wire somewhere causing it all would be a nice quick fix, except I don't have a clue when it comes to electrics.

Presumably the earth will be bolted onto the frame of the bike? If so, any idea where I should start looking?

 

Often around the headstock area...there should also be an earth to the engine that will need checking..

[eastanglianbiker]

check the earth lead from the battery as well where it meets the frame there might be a 2nd earth there from the loom and where you tugged the loom about it might of spread the earth tag a bit,also drop seat off see if there is an earth around the rear light/indicator area going on to the subframe and check that while there you could also find which wire is the earth and spike into it and earth it to the frame and see if anything changes

[mealexme]

Right, I took the bike apart completely and found the ground points. All are nice and tight, nothing looks out of place and I gave them a good clean just for the hell of it, and no change.

I don't think a misbehaving ground is out of the equation yet as the loom looks like its had a bit of a battering in the past, with a couple of different alarm systems installed and ripped out, so I'll be going over the whole thing next week I think, just to make sure everything is legit, more than likely re-soldering points that have been cut in the past, just to week any problems with bad soldering points.

All bare connections have been covered with electrical tape as far as I can see (which I will probably re-seal with heat shrink) and all connections look ok.

What else could be causing the issues other than a bad ground though?

The issues do seem to stop, or at the very least get a lot better if the engine is running. I noticed this today as I got home and turned the engine off via the kill switch, with my indicator on, the indicator slowly went from a normal flash rate to a fast rate, then upon starting up it went back to normal.

I've had a probe at the battery, which shows around 11.8v with the engine off and indicators flashing, so I don't think that's low enough to start messing with anything, is it?

Could it be a combination of a bad flasher relay and a lower voltage going through the system with the engine off? (ie charging system not working)

the bike is a 600rr, fuel injected if that is any help, what so ever. I may have to learn how to read wiring diagrams and see if I can find a copy for the bike, because this really is making no sense to me, I mean why would it make a difference to the flash rate if the engine is on or not? And why the f*ck would the headlight stop working and the rear indicators both stick on? There has to be some wires being crossed somewhere, surely? (p.s, both problems never happen at the same time, infact if the headlight is out and rear indicators are stuck on (its only ever the rear) then the front indicators won't come on at all, not even when you hit the switch, and the indicator lights on the dash stay off too)

Uuuurg, anyone have any gremilin-away spray?

[GazW]

Battery is nearly goosed, I'd replace that first then see where you're up to

[mealexme]

uuurg, I bought that battery less than a year ago, spent loads of money making sure I had the best available :/

think I'll go for a long ride first, charge it up, then put the multi-meter over it. The ignition has been on quite a bit without the engine running whilst trying to figure out what was wrong.

Thanks for the graph

[Stu]

Once the bike is running the charging system takes over the battery is only there to start it

So if it still does it when running then its not a battery issue

Plus with you messing about with it you may have just drained the battery a tad

[banditjohn]

If you can get the battery fully charged then check it first thing in the morning that'll give you a better indication as to whether it's holding a charge, I'm thinking that as this all started after stretching the loom it's not a cert on the battery being shagged. I would take the fuse bank and check the connections as all was well until that point, sometimes it's best to think of the simple solution might be the best and for my two penneth I'd be looking at the back of the fuses to see if there's a crossed wire in that area as that was what got pulled about

[mealexme]

Thanks for the tips guys, I can't get into the guts of the bike again until mid-week, so I'll have another play then, see if I can fix anything then.

[mealexme]

messing around with it as we speak. Taking the fuse out of the headlight part of the fuse box and low and behold, the indicators flash as should with the engine off. Return the fuse and they flash fast.

Same with the indicators being on constantly. Headlight fuse in and the rear indicators come on, take it out and they go off.

Wires HAVE to be crossed somewhere, right? I just need to find out where the f*ck it is. I've spent a good few hours just trying to get to all the wires in the loom without cutting any of the actual wires. Its going to be a loong day I think

[Fozzie]

When you pull the fuse out for the headlights you remove the connection entirely. That means your problem is in the headlight area.

Check the headstock area and see if any wires have rubbed through?