Triumph daytona 600 charging issue reg rectifier maybe?

[gary4286]

Evening all my daytona 600 died on me last night I had to get AA to rescue me all of a sudden my clocks died on me I had nothing at on display 2 mins later it cut out on me.

The AA jumped started me and got me going lasted about 3 miles then same again clocks went then bike cut out

I'm told most likely reg rectifier?

Any advice would be great as don't have alot to spend at moment thanks alot guys

[Stu]

first thing would be to do is fully charge it and see if it holds its charge after a day or so

then get the bike started and see if the voltage increases while the bike is running

[gary4286]

Ok I've got charger will stick it on it wasn't started for 8 weeks and fired up first time yesterday. When AA had meter on battery and gave it a rev it went up to 13.6v from 12.4 on idle

Cheers

[Stu]

well that sounds to me like its charging!

when it dies does the bike tun over at all?

it could maybe a loose connection or the reg/rec could be dying when it heats up

[Maxorama]

Should be charging more than that, if your getting a reading of 12.4 on idle that means it's not charging at all (presuming the battery is charged) and should be kicking out more like 14-14.5 above idle. You could try taking a reading with the engine running and lights on.

Also you can check continuity on the regulator and stator, have a search of youtube for some how to videos. ..

If it ends up being your regulator you can look at upgrading from a shunt type to a mosfet type, again Google for more info mosfet type run cooler and are less prone to frying.

Though with a low charge like that I would be checking your stator.

Good luck!

[Stu]

Should be charging more than that, if your getting a reading of 12.4 on idle that means it's not charging at all (presuming the battery is charged) and should be kicking out more like 14-14.5 above idle. You could try taking a reading with the engine running and lights on.

Also you can check continuity on the regulator and stator, have a search of youtube for some how to videos. ..

If it ends up being your regulator you can look at upgrading from a shunt type to a mosfet type, again Google for more info mosfet type run cooler and are less prone to frying.

Though with a low charge like that I would be checking your stator.

Good luck!

 

Its a known problem for some bikes to hardly put any charge in to the battery at tickover and not much more at revs and I believe the daytona is one of the common ones

as long as its putting 13+ volts it will charge albeit very slowly

modifying the wiring fixes the issues but for now lets just make sure things are working then move to getting a better charge rate

[gary4286]

Flat when try and start it won't turn doesn't even have enough power for indicators. Sometimes ticking under seat not sure what from.

As soon as AA jumped started again full power for couple miles then lose clocks then cuts out again

What do we think to try battery first charge it up for 24hrs than?

[Stu]

the clicking is the starter relay

fully charge the battery depending on the charger will depend on how long it takes

once charged take readings of

Battery after an hour or so of resting after charging

ignition on

idle lights off

idle lights on

revving at about 5k

and if you can check what the volts drop to when you try starting the bike

[ThePhatomfart]

Hi Gary, just to throw my tuppence in, agree with what you've been told,evidently the RR's and relays on the Daytona are suspect, here's a good fault finding chart[attachment=0]fault-finding-diagram.pdf[/attachment]

and some info for the relays, http://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/relay-guide.html

[Tango]

The charging circuit on the Daytona is notorious for giving trouble..... Get on the Triumph Rat site and have a look.....there's mods and alternative Reg/Recs around that can help sort it out......

[Tango]

Dunno if you can follow this link......but it's very interesting.......http://www.triumphrat.net/#/topics/599170?page=1

[Rik398]

I had the same issue with mine.

Essentially, the fix involves upgrading the rr. The one on there is a shunt type, and you can buy, or source from a Yamaha r1 I believe, a much better mosfet unit. You can also get a wiring harness to make this very much plug and play.

The second part of the fix is to directly wire the output from the rear to the battery, which eliminates all of the potential inefficiencies in the wiring harness.

It's all on the Triumph rat site. There is a wizard on there who figured everything out.

The ticking in the bike, as said is the starter relay. When battery is low and you try and start, it will struggle to turn the starter. Ideally, you want to be putting more like 14 to the battery. Some guys also stuck a volt meter on as part of the upgrade to keep an eye on things.

[Maxorama]

I had the same issue with mine.

Essentially, the fix involves upgrading the rr. The one on there is a shunt type, and you can buy, or source from a Yamaha r1 I believe, a much better mosfet unit. You can also get a wiring harness to make this very much plug and play.

The second part of the fix is to directly wire the output from the rear to the battery, which eliminates all of the potential inefficiencies in the wiring harness.

It's all on the Triumph rat site. There is a wizard on there who figured everything out.

The ticking in the bike, as said is the starter relay. When battery is low and you try and start, it will struggle to turn the starter. Ideally, you want to be putting more like 14 to the battery. Some guys also stuck a volt meter on as part of the upgrade to keep an eye on things.

 

The only thing i think is strange is that the OP's bike is under charging. In my experience, when a regulator fails the whole system ends up running on (In upwards of) 16v or so. Unless they are able to fail in a semi closed position?

either way, here's a link with info about the MOSFET style regulator mod - it is basically plug and play http://www.rc51forums.com/forums/60-how-articles/6540-how-shindengen-mosfet-regulator-rectifier.html

Any regulator with a part number that starts in FH is a mosfet type - SH indicated shunt type - there are also units coming from china which have a part number which is different all together, cheap, but the one i bought lasted about 2 months. Various types of newer bikes run mosfet regulators so if you get on ebay and look for part numbers you'll be able to get a good deal - mine was about £45 i think.

Older r6 regulators are a SH type but rated to 50 Amps rather than 35 - so they still get hot and will eventually fail but take a while longer to fail..

I think its a pretty important mod if you need your bike to be reliable for commuting or whatever. I did it to my old ZZR with a little volt meter and a reset able fuse running out of the regulator into the battery. So in theory, if the regulator fries, i should see (if i notice) a spike in the displayed voltage, followed to it dropping down to 12.5 or whatever the charge is on the battery - meaning that the main fuse on the wiring harness doesn't blow and the bike doesn't cut out. (this happened to me and it sucked). means you can get home and sort it out..

anyway it might not even be that haha

[Maxorama]

I would also check the quality of your earth cable as well, i think a fair few people add another or beef up the existing one.

[Stu]

DEcosse over on triumph rat forum got most of the info from over at TLzone and shared it on the rat forum when he went over to triumphs

The TL's was notorious for having a shite charging system often running at around 13v when revved and around 12.4 when idling

One problem associated with having a custom loom for the charging system is that fact that all power for the running of the bike goes through the wiring on the starter relay as you have no feed going back in to the loom from the reg/rec you have to remove some of the load from the wiring on the relay. On the TL most people have a separate loom for the charging system the headlights and the coils this makes a huge improvement to the running of the bike and reduces the load on the stock wiring loom

Reg/recs can go either way from sticking too much charge in to not enough and also stop working when they heat up! one of the common headaches is everything looks as though it is charging but once ridding for a few mins the reg/rec heats up and stops working! this is where external voltmeters play a good part

Another reason for bad charging is also worn or bad connections which get worse as they heat up and start to melt!

Here is a couple of threads to read for those who are interested there is some good info there

http://www.tlzone.net/forums/frequent-tl-mods/85339-charging-system-mod.html

http://www.triumphrat.net/speed-triple-forum/104504-charging-system-diagnostics-rectifier-regulator-upgrade.html

[Maxorama]

DEcosse over on triumph rat forum got most of the info from over at TLzone and shared it on the rat forum when he went over to triumphs

The TL's was notorious for having a shite charging system often running at around 13v when revved and around 12.4 when idling

One problem associated with having a custom loom for the charging system is that fact that all power for the running of the bike goes through the wiring on the starter relay as you have no feed going back in to the loom from the reg/rec you have to remove some of the load from the wiring on the relay. On the TL most people have a separate loom for the charging system the headlights and the coils this makes a huge improvement to the running of the bike and reduces the load on the stock wiring loom

Reg/recs can go either way from sticking too much charge in to not enough and also stop working when they heat up! one of the common headaches is everything looks as though it is charging but once ridding for a few mins the reg/rec heats up and stops working! this is where external voltmeters play a good part

Another reason for bad charging is also worn or bad connections which get worse as they heat up and start to melt!

Here is a couple of threads to read for those who are interested there is some good info there

http://www.tlzone.net/forums/frequent-tl-mods/85339-charging-system-mod.html

http://www.triumphrat.net/speed-triple-forum/104504-charging-system-diagnostics-rectifier-regulator-upgrade.html

 

Thats a good point! the power 'out' from the regulator i actually just took a wire straight from that to the +ve on the battery to cut the loom out of the equasion

[Stu]

Thats a good point! the power 'out' from the regulator i actually just took a wire straight from that to the +ve on the battery to cut the loom out of the equasion

 

The problem you have now is that there is no power going back in to the loom to supply the voltage to the bike its all going through the thin wires on the relay

It would be a good idea to at least get the headlights on relays running off the battery bypassing the loom this would also give you good voltage at the lights and probably more light too so a plus plus

[gary4286]

Cheers all it sounds like you all think itshe the rr.

And when I rang my local bike mechanic he said same thing they are know for it. But also the stator could be fried?

Done a slow charge on it over night readings are

12.9v couple hours after charge

12.1v when connected and electrics on engine not running.

It fired up lovely and on idle 13.5v

When revved to 5000rpm it went to 13.7

Does this mean anything?

Deff rr?

[Stu]

That to me suggests you are getting some charge through to the battery

I would start by checking all the wiring and also stick the multimeter on to the wiring where it comes out from the RR

You may need to go in to the back of the connectors

[Rik398]

Yes, the stator could be fried - It is worth looking. You can remove the cover without loosing all the oil. Some oil will come out (about half a cup) as the stator sits in a bath of oil.

To confuse things further with the daytona 600 in particular, I have also heard it said that the rotor (the spinning magnet surrounding the stator) is too powerful and fries the stators, to the point where I have seen a kit for sale which has both the stator and the rotor. I have only heard this from one source though, which happens to be the shop selling the kit. Personally, I think this is potentially confusing the issue, and would focus on checking that the stator is ok and sorting out the RR.

If the stator is dead, you can do an exchange re - wind service. The OEM stator is available as a part from triumph, but is horrifically expensive.

If you go on triumph rat, you can see that you can test the stator without removing the cover.

[gary4286]

Hi guys checked the rr and seems to be ok checked all 3 phases and 4.17 and 4.18 and 4.20 which sujests all good then checked the stator plug with meter done ground test and seemed no current going to ground then done the 3 wires check and got small amount 0.01 but it's still a reading if broke coil it wouldn't come up with a reading I'm stuck now guys???