Steering Dampener question

[jodieKti2]

I've now ridden 2 R6s and both had rather frisky steering.  Basically feels way to responsive which for those track demons out there is perfect but for us mere mortals isn't very confidence inducing.   I've been informed that a steering dampener will help massively especially for someone new to such bikes.   From what I can understand it helps in high speed corners eliminating some head shake  and reduces the effect of tank slappers.  However if that's the case then surely slow speed cornering or manoeuvring is more difficult? Are they worth getting as a decent Ohlins one is rather expensive.  Cheaper ones are out there but I know Ohlins make the best suspension out there - my lotus had 3 way Ohlins on it plus my current car has them so it's a brand I trust.

Edited Saturday at 15:08 by jodieKti2

[Tinkicker]

Instead of a steering damper, try a ride on an R6 with tyre pressures a bit lower than recommended, maybe 5 psi lower.  Steering dampers mask the symptoms of a poor setup, they do not cure the disease.

Edited Saturday at 16:11 by Tinkicker

[Punts]

I would check and get the suspension set up for your weight first. Raising the rear or lowering the front will sharpen up the steering and vice versa.

If you are light and the rear suspension is too stiff, it will make the steering twitchy.

[jodieKti2]

20 minutes ago, Tinkicker said:

Instead of a steering damper, try a ride on an R6 with tyre pressures a bit lower than recommended, maybe 5 psi lower.  Steering dampers mask the symptoms of a poor setup, they do not cure the disease.

Won't this wear the tyre a lot quicker  and effect slow manoeuvring?   I used to run low pressures on my Lotus at track days but the tyre wear was very noticeable and the steering heavy when parking.  .

 

17 minutes ago, Punts said:

I would check and get the suspension set up for your weight first. Raising the rear or lowering the front will sharpen up the steering and vice versa.

If you are light and the rear suspension is too stiff, it will make the steering twitchy.

 

Makes sense.   Would a change of  rear spring help and what size would best fit someone not that heavy ?  I understand car suspension and spring rates but bikes are very different.  If I understand it correctly the lower rate the better it is for someone light.  So I'm guessing a 80 or 90nm spring?   

 

Dumb question time,  Is it best to upgrade the forks first or the rear suspension ?  The bikes I'm looking at are all high mileage ones anyway, so it's probably best to replace the suspension and get it setup first.  

 

Edited Saturday at 17:34 by jodieKti2

[Punts]

Your right that a lower rate is better for a lighter person but would be better getting advise from a professional. 

Google "motorcycle suspension specialists near me" and you will get a list of professionals who, for about £70/£80, will set your suspension to suit your weight and riding style, advise you on what could be made better and how much it would cost. This is usually a ride in, ride out service.

Have a look at an R6 Forum to see what others have done or who they got to carry out they're work.

The front and rear suspension should match each other, probably rear spring first, as long as the shock is operating as it should.

The front can be adjusted by altering oil thickness and air gap, before having to change the internal springs or valves.

[Tinkicker]

5 hours ago, jodieKti2 said:

Won't this wear the tyre a lot quicker  and effect slow manoeuvring?   I used to run low pressures on my Lotus at track days but the tyre wear was very noticeable and the steering heavy when parking.  .

 

 

Makes sense.   Would a change of  rear spring help and what size would best fit someone not that heavy ?  I understand car suspension and spring rates but bikes are very different.  If I understand it correctly the lower rate the better it is for someone light.  So I'm guessing a 80 or 90nm spring?   

 

Dumb question time,  Is it best to upgrade the forks first or the rear suspension ?  The bikes I'm looking at are all high mileage ones anyway, so it's probably best to replace the suspension and get it setup first.  

 

Err no.  Recommended tyre pressures are not an exact science.  They are a one size fits all solution.  If you are female and if  therefore more slightly built than an 18 stone bodybuilder, then a lower pressure will slow the steering down a little.

 

I used to compete in trials and my tyre pressures varied from 18 psi to 4 psi depending on the conditions.

 

There is no such thing as one size fits all.  You have to find a tailored solution for you.  A steering damper is nothing but a cheap plaster over the cracks solution.

Edited Saturday at 22:20 by Tinkicker

[bonio]

Don't know why you'd be thinking of getting an R6 and the spending a shedload on new springs and redoing the forks to make more rideable for you. Wouldn't it be simpler to go for something that starts off being closer to what you actually want?

[RideWithStyles]

First things first: bike then rider.

ill guess this is a early r6, what year? RWU forks?

an r6 was for bean poles or average young males back in the day not chunky middle aged ones now, so for a female it most likely will still be good if it’s had a good tlc life. 
I learned to drive first then 10years later I jumped from not knowing how to ride a bike to a 600cc 100hp in the space of a few weeks, wife went from timid and not knowing how ride or drive to getting on with a 125 cbt first time out with help and encouragement from me, 5 or so years later passed her car license first time.

 

bike yes steering damper will slow and mask a basic geometry of the bikes design. Ohlins steering dampers are good to a point (depending on is internal setup), yet ohlins SD’s were very weak in durability and design for these parts, always have been, most changed them to other makes, Plus having to keep winding on of off to get to work best gets tiresome.

their forks and shocks are much better, though less durable but replaceable/serviceable parts are better stocked than say Showa etc.

its great that you understand spring rates, bikes they are very sensitive to geometry changes, compression and rebound far greater than cars, and unless you really get the trick suspension kits and use on track for a car but it’s difficult to know what your looking for with a bike.

 

what setting is the bike on now and its service of the forks and shock? What’s been changed/modified?

was the last owner a track goer med group, 90 kg, hardly any road? That set up will be totally different for your requirements. Or did he just had a fiddle with it and got lost and left it and just road it has it was and gotten used to it, just someone else will wonder if it’s broken or ill handling?
How many pre load front rings or turns out? 

What rebound and possibly compression turns out if it’s a later one?

rear pre load ramp setting or twin rings? What it at?

what rebound and compression (turns or clicks if it has it at?

when it’s cold and you push down very hard with the front brake on (make a visual not or the barley snugg zip tie trick) how far does it go down and when you let it return at its own will how does it behave? Does it slowly comes back or does it rush back bobs (count the bobs) at the top of the fork stroke? Then when the bike is hot or warm after a ride do the same again, does the return feel faster that it was cold or does it bob even more times than before?

Similar to the rear, but can you lift the rear up a little bit from its normal position, so you’ve got some dead space Over a bump (not a pot hole) if the shocks return is too fast and tops out to easily, Other wise the rear will be smacking up you in the arse and makes the rear twitchy and gives the front aload of strain and weight biase and likes it twitchy again.

 

What make and model of tyres are on it now and what pressures you run at? As TK mentioned that can have a great effect on its balance and handling.

pressure is two things related- weight and forces, if your a 90kg rider and some kit, just average scenery riding will need to be higher pressure than a 60kg rider in town.

So if your pressure is high for your weight, it will make to bike very responsive and crashy, if your intimidated by the bike because it’s too flightly you’ll never work it and the tyre to its capabilities and so the wear will be different/ could be worse but on the other end of the scale of visual wear patterns.
remember if you add a 90kg dude in a car its relatively like adding a small tank bag of stuff for a bike.
1600kg car plus passenger 90kg Is under 5%. Weight is shared between four points with a large platform.

200kg bike plus a 5kg bag is 5%. Weight is shared between two points with a very narrow platform, has great yaw effects. 
 

Your weight with kit (roughly). Urban, motorway, rural, track, legal limits or well over?

 

so yes r6 was never for new or timid riders as it was a spirited road bike at the time, but a modern one is far worse in that aspect. a little here and there tweak might be enough just to make it less intimidating till you get upto its level saving you paying twice or trice if it can be helped.

Edited yesterday at 09:27 by RideWithStyles