Geoff Wilson

There's quite a bit of hyperbole on this thread. You're taking what I asked out of context. I'm not saying that people can't start out on 1000cc bikes, but the idea that someone can just pass his/her bike test and then ride an R1 or a GSXR1000 is barking mad. Don't you think so? There's nothing stopping someone who has passed his/her bike test from buying such a big and powerful bike, but some of the litre bikes are known as 'widow makers' for a reason!

That's not the point. Are people on here advocating for people to start out on superbikes?

Why is it not "generally good advice"?

If only it were as easy as that. Smaller bikes forgive people more. Bigger bikes will bite even the most experienced riders in their arses.

https://motorwisdom.com/can-a-beginner-start-on-a-1000cc-motorcycle/ https://www.quora.com/Can-I-start-on-a-1000cc-motorcycle https://www.r3-forums.com/threads/so-you-want-a-600cc-or-1000cc-for-your-1st-bike.2314/

Obviously not. Such silly sarcasm. Even a 600cc like an R6 can get the better of people.

So let me get this straight, are some people on here recommending or at least having no issues with someone who has just passed his/her bike test getting an R1 or GSXR1000 for his/her first bike? I can link to dozens upon dozens of threads about this question on different forums, on Reddit, etc. The answer is quite clear - NO. Litre bikes can even get the better of people who have 20+ years of experience on the roads.

Is there a reason why motorbike training schools use standard/naked bikes rather than superbikes when training people?

Were they keeping up with other riders on the same size bikes on the country lanes and bends? The reason I ask that is because from what I’ve read is that people who do skip the concept of working your way up and just go straight for a litre bike don’t actually ride the bike how it should be ridden since it’s essentially a track bike on the road and are so intimidated by the power that they are riding it in a style to tame the bike.

I don’t need to have bike experience to know that some of the fastest bikes are not recommend for people who have just passed their bike test. I don’t need to have ridden a bike to know that a bike that can make you lose your license in first gear is not a good option for inexperienced riders. Do professional motorbike road racers start off on litre bikes or do you think they work their way up in terms of the powers of bikes? Would you recommend a Skyline or an Audi R8 to someone who has just passed his/her car test? Why do you think Formula 1 drivers normally start out on dodgems and then work their way up in terms of power?

I agree with you with regard to the brakes, suspension, etc, on modern bikes and bigger bikes. But, let’s take a Honda CBR400RR and a Suzuki GSXR1000… you’re coming out of a bend and you put a bit more throttle than you wanted to on the former, will you crash? With the latter, isn’t a crash almost inevitable because of the power of the bike? If you accelerate too hard on a litre bike then the front end is going to come up and you could flip it. What happens if you grab too much front brake on a big bike? Etc. There are so many examples of how a big bike could get an inexperienced rider into trouble.

The crash is shortly after 21:20 for anyone interested. Wouldn't that have happened to anyone on any bike? It was due to the condition of the road rather than the riding ability of the rider or the bike.

I think ‘it is down to the rider’ is only true to an extent. Bigger bikes are a lot heavier and much less forgiving. There are things you can do on little bikes that you can’t do on bigger bikes.

Was it not a lot heavier? Isn’t it difficult to manoeuvre a bigger bike on Mod 1? Yes, I have heard that 125cc bikes aren’t the best when it comes to slow speeds. Why is that?

I wonder if a lot of it comes down to how mature and responsible the rider is when riding a 1000cc superbike. I think the biggest problem is the question, “How fast will it go?” Then the new rider tries to find out and has an accident by being too cocky and overconfident.

How do training schools teach people to ride a 600cc or whatever size bike that has the right amount of power (54bhp) to get a full license if they have only ever been on a 125cc? There’s going to be a world of difference riding a 125cc and a bike that has the 54bhp power. I don’t know how much true it is, but my friend told me he found it easier to do ride the bigger bike compared to the 125cc bike when he did his CBT and he had no previous biking experience. Of course an accident can even happen on a moped, but bigger bikes get people into possibly dangerous situations a lot quicker. Is it really possible to actually learn on an R1 or a GSXR1000 after just passing your test? Sticking to speed limits, learning to corner properly, etc.

A bit too much throttle on a superbike and you are going to be doing a ridiculous speed. Bigger bikes catch inexperienced riders out. Would you recommend a driver who has just passed his or her test to get a Skyline or a Ferrari?

What do you think this proves? Do you think it negatives any of my points? I specifically stated that not EVERY Staffy or Pitbull is a bad dog, but the origins of those breeds need to be taken into consideration when getting one. There’s a reason why Staffies are notorious amongst chavs and the whole hardman image. With regard to the latter, it was the same for Dobermans in the 1980s, Rottweilers in the 1990s, etc. And, again, if you look into the origins of those breeds then it’s obvious why they were popular amongst hardmen. In some circumstances it is actually a positive to tar everyone or every thing with the same brush. There’s no way I am going to approach any thug with any tough dog. There’s no way I am going to let my dogs play with dozens of strange dogs, who knows what the temperaments of those dogs are like precisely? There’s no way I’m going to approach anyone with a knife or other weapon. There’s no way I am going to walk past a gang. I have met a few Staffies that were lovely. My auntie had one and her dog was absolutely gorgeous. But, it is also important to look at the bigger picture when it comes to dog breeds.

Can you imagine what the kid is like in his home? Yup. Social contagion is a massive problem. You can’t say boo to a goose without offending at least one person.

That’s my issue with schools these days. The kids have the upper hand and they know it. Kids can get away with pretty much any thing these days. Also, whilst I don’t deny that there are people (children and adults) who genuinely have disorders, it seems as though these days if a kid does something wrong then there’s always something wrong with him/her and that somehow justifies the action. ‘The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree’ certainly comes to my mind. I think like every thing that is good is bad and every thing is bad is good. People never seem to take responsibility.

Did anyone hear or read about it in the news recently? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-61570461 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/dog-attack-wrexham-american-bully-b2087312.html?amp Surprise, surprise, the owner’s girlfriend has attempted to defend the dog by saying: ”"I told [the dog] to get off, and he did, he's obedient. Then Kev looked down, and said 'he's got me'.” "So many people said what a passive dog Cookie was, but Cookie hasn't attacked Kev, it wasn't a vicious attack - it was a tragic accident," she added.” Of course she’s not going to blame her boyfriend who breeds the breed: “"Cookie had been hand-reared by Josh from a pup, he was Josh's dog, but he was our dog," she said.” And, wait for it… ”Ms Fong's boyfriend, Josh Jones, is a breeder of American Bullys or XL Bullys, which are legal to own in the UK. He has been breeding the dogs for about six years, and Ms Fong said it was "his dream" to "better the breed."” Well that hasn’t turned out how he expected it to now, has it? She is absolutely nuts, she even compared the bloke to the dog and insists it was not even a dog attack: ”Today has been the worst day of my life. I have had to watch two men who I love so much take their last breath. I can’t shake the feeling of Keven's blood off my hands and all I can hear in my head is Cookie's cries. "Cookie did not attack Keven, he’s a big boy and plays too rough. Please respect Josh and his family, myself and my family at this absolutely heart breaking time.” What an absolute load of bollocks. The American Bully dog breed is a relatively new breed and is descended from the Pitbull and other bull breeds. One of the most dangerous myths spread about the Pitbull is that it was a “nanny dog” which is completely untrue . Pitbulls were bred to fight other dogs, I mean the clue is in the name of the dog breed. It’s the same for the Staffy in the UK, it was never a “nanny dog” and was also bred to fight other dogs. Pitbulls and Staffies share common ancestors. Does that mean every single Staffy or Pitbull is aggressive? No. But, in general those types of breeds are more aggressive towards other dogs because that is what they were bred to do and no matter how much training one tries to do he or she cannot change nature. Huskies were bred to pull sleds. Dobermans were bred as guard dogs. Golden Retrievers were bred to retrieve. Border Collies were bred to herd and so forth. Any dog can bite, but different breeds were bred to do different things. What's with the idea of having a dog of any size on those stupid extendable leads? The owners don’t have any control over their dogs and in my opinion it’s a sign of lack of training and obedience. Who is walking whom? I saw a woman getting dragged down the street earlier today and I shook my head in disbelief. It’s just such stupidity. My wife and I have three Springer Spaniels and they are all trained to walk on or off their leads next to either one of us. If we see other dogs then we put our dogs on their leads because although our dogs are fine and ignore other dogs, we do not know what other dogs are like at all. One of my biggest pet hates is when someone has his or her dog off the lead and it does not listen to him or her and he or she shouts over “don’t worry, he’s friendly!” It’s such a lack of respect for other people and their dogs and I find it very rude. I think political correctness has been extended to dogs for a little while now. So-called dog trainers these days just teach people to give their dogs treats for allegedly good behaviour and to just ignore (not discipline by even a firm “NO!”) things they don’t want the dogs to do. Are you kidding me? It gets even worse… there’s a largely spread myth that there’s no such thing as an Alpha male and that dogs aren’t even pack animals! What???? So I did a little bit of research into this claptrap and it turns out the person who let those facts be known prefers for people to say “parents” instead. Urgh! Even more cringeworthy is when people refer to their dogs as “fur babies”. Dogs aren’t surrogate children. Or, what about the people mixing different breeds just for the sake of it? People pay thousands for mongrels. I think a lot of behavioural problems in dogs and even kids are down to lack of discipline, lack of respect and lack of leadership. That’s excluding the genetic side of things. Since all living things are determined by both nature and nurture. I really don’t understand why some people get dogs that they can’t physically control or they don’t have the time of day for at all. The latter really annoys me… all those selfish people who got dogs during the lockdowns (not everyone, obviously) and now the poor dogs are left all day bored stiff. When I see certain dog breeds and especially if I don’t like the look of the owners then I turn around or at least go another way. I’m always vigilant when I’m out with my dogs. There are quite a few idiots who have aggressive dogs and they love it and still let their dogs off their leads and don’t care if their dogs attack other dogs. In over three decades I have only ever had a near incident with another dog, it was in 2009 when my oldest Springer Spaniel was about 6 months old and I was on a field next to my wife’s sister’s house and I saw this Staffy come charging over and it came over snarling and growling at such speed it actually flipped over my dog and my protective instinct kicked in and it was wearing a spiky collar and I got my hands under it and choked it out and the owner came over and well as you can imagine I was furious and he was probably about 22 years old or something and I told him to give me his lead and I clipped it onto the collar and well I said a few words and let’s just say that I never saw him or his dog ever again. Thankfully it didn’t affect my dog at all because nothing happened to him, but it could have turned out differently. I really don’t understand why people aren’t firm but kind anymore. Has anyone else noticed this in society? I hear kids swearing at their parents. I hear kids demanding this and that. I think we live in a society in which kids aren’t told that they can ever fail and that they should be given every thing handed to them on a plate for free. You can’t say boo to a goose in case you offend anyone these days. I think the world has gone nuts!

Did he ever tell you whether it hindered him from learning to ride a bike? Did he ever end up getting a litre bike? What does he have now?

Except someone can pull the throttle back quite a bit on a 250cc bike from the 1980s and it will take a while to get to 100mph, but a GSXR1000 will reach 100mph in 2nd gear or something like that. The acceleration difference is going to be huge. What about when going out of a corner? On a smaller bike you can get away with giving it a bit of throttle a bit too early but on a litre bike the back end would bite you in the arse and you could quite easily come off your bike. What about when you first start riding your bike and tyres are cold? Can you still accelerate hard on a litre bike? Also, what about when braking hard? Superbikes are basically track bikes that are road legal, from what I have read the throttle and brakes are meant to be very sharp. So just like accelerating too hard and quickly could cause problems, braking too hard and quickly could cause problems. Surely someone with little experience getting a litre bike that is a superbike is running before he can even walk! Even modern-day 600cc road bikes are more than enough and can get someone into trouble very quickly.

Do people actually start out on 1000cc superbikes? I’m a joiner and I was talking to a guy earlier today and I mentioned that I want to get my full bike license and get something like a Suzuki Bandit 600cc and he told me that his brother rode dirt bikes when he was younger and a 250cc when he was in his early 20s when people could ride a 250cc on L plates and he recently passed his test and bought a Suzuki GSXR1000. I understand that there is a difference when it comes to maturity generally speaking between someone in his early 20s and 30+, but is it really possible for someone to make such a big jump and ride the bike without any problems? I was always under the impression that litre bikes do not forgive people and someone needs years and years of experience to ride one. The power difference between a 250cc from the 1980s and any of the superbikes will be crazy. I did work in a factory about 10 years ago and one of the lads in his 20s got a Yamaha R6 as his first bike after passing his test and he was fine on it. Unless someone wants to correct me, someone passing his bike test and getting a litre bike with very little experience is like someone passing his car test and getting a Nissan Skyline. Does anyone know someone who started on a 1000cc superbike after passing his test?

Did you pass Module 1 first time? How many lessons did you have for Module 2?