Ben Spies @ Valencia

[DutchMick]

After free practice he's 2 and a bit seconds off the pace. New track, new bike, new tyres but I've always said he was crap, and ugly too.

Does anybody think we'll ever get a world champion MotoGP thats rode in WSB/BSB? Of all the riders that have moved to MGP, I think only Bayliss has won a race.

[techno]

Well Nicky Hayden did come from the american version!

Think now the bikes are 800's it will be even harder for a wsb rider to do wel at motogp level, thats why I was a little shocked that crutchlow opted for that route!

[Netmeister]

Bloomin 'eck Mick, early days yet!

I think Spies will do better than Hayden and Edwards have done. He's a special one.

[techno]

So you think he'll be world champ then....I dont!

[DutchMick]

I forgot about Hayden, but I must say he's one of the most inconspicuous champions ever, him and Kenny jr. When Bayliss (total god on two wheels) won his gp at Valencia the year Hayden became WC, he led from start to finish, 20 odd laps. That was more laps leading than Hayden over the whole season! I think we can safely say that Rossi/Yamaha gifted that championship.

And no, Spies will never be world champ, Edwards was a much better rider in his WSB days and he's never even been close. Its just a totally different type of racing. Bradders has a better chance if he moves up to Moto2 then GPs. I can't wait to see those 600's by the way.

Christ I'm babbling, off to bed

[awwwnuts]

I think the simple fact is that WSBK riders are simply to big. Danny Pedrosa is 5' tall and weighs 7 stone. Ben Spies is 5'.11" and weighs 11.5 stone. That's quite a difference in power to weight ratio.

Its the nature of the beast, a superbike suits the build of guys like JT and BS. The 990 era was more of a comparison hence Hayden having some success.

Now with the 800's its all about corner speed, and that just doesn't suit a successful superbike rider, but does a 250 rider.

I think that Spies will have some success, but world champion? No. I do think he will stay longer in GP than Toseland though, because Edwards is due to retire, and Hayden needs result to stay, which he just isn't getting. So Dorna will need Spies to keep the American interest going.

[Netmeister]

So you think he'll be world champ then....I dont!

 

I bet you said Hayden wouldn't have been world champ either.

To use the argument that hayden was gifted the championship is nonsense. So your saying that no one but rossi deserves the title just because he's the best rider? You have to think of it as the team (including the rider) winning the title, not just the rider. As we've seen even rossi can't win when his team aren't doing their job properly, and if hayden was there to pick up the points rossi and his team couldn't get then he fully deserves the title.

IMO if spies can get on top machinery, he's in with a shot.

[DutchMick]

So you think he'll be world champ then....I dont!

 

I bet you said Hayden wouldn't have been world champ either.

To use the argument that hayden was gifted the championship is nonsense. So your saying that no one but rossi deserves the title just because he's the best rider? You have to think of it as the team (including the rider) winning the title, not just the rider. As we've seen even rossi can't win when his team aren't doing their job properly, and if hayden was there to pick up the points rossi and his team couldn't get then he fully deserves the title.

IMO if spies can get on top machinery, he's in with a shot.

I did say Rossi/Yamaha gifted him the title, I'm pretty sure that means the team as a whole. I think the Yamaha broke down 4 times that season and Rossi dumped it at Valencia while leading the championship after Pedrosa messed Haydens chances up. I agree that Hayden picked up the points that Rossi and his team failed to get and was rightly crowned WC but it wasn't very convincing. You saw how much faith Honda had in him by making the 800 to suit Pedrosa the next year.

Awwwnuts makes a good point about the size of WSB riders and the 990's being better suited to their build, more a pure power machine that needed to be handled accordingly than the 800's that seem to need a fluent riding style.

But there again that doesnt explain the Stoner/Ducati relationship, I'm amazed everytime I see Stoner wringing that bikes neck and the fact, up until now, no-one else seems able to control the Ducati anywhere near as well as him. If he stays fit, Stoner will win it next year.

Lorenzo and Rossi will be close, Pedrosa best of the rest, followed by Dovi. I can't see Spies being much better than Toseland or Edwards, I hope I'm wrong and Spies shakes the order up, battling for the top 3 at every race but I don't think so.

[techno]

So you think he'll be world champ then....I dont!

 

I bet you said Hayden wouldn't have been world champ either.

To use the argument that hayden was gifted the championship is nonsense. So your saying that no one but rossi deserves the title just because he's the best rider? You have to think of it as the team (including the rider) winning the title, not just the rider. As we've seen even rossi can't win when his team aren't doing their job properly, and if hayden was there to pick up the points rossi and his team couldn't get then he fully deserves the title.

IMO if spies can get on top machinery, he's in with a shot.

 

No one saw Hayden as a world champ, but he didnt come to gp with the riding god like status that Speeeeeeeez has either If speeeez doesnt do well its a good indicator of the gap between wsb and motogp.

I will be a little disappointed if he doesnt get a top 10, finish after all look how simoncelli did going from 250 to wsb!!

And when the hell did anyone say that no one but Rossi wins the title, he maybe the best rider out there but it is about the package and at the moment the strongest package is stoner/ducati and am more than convinced thats because of the superior electronics package on the duke!

[Netmeister]

I did say Rossi/Yamaha gifted him the title, I'm pretty sure that means the team as a whole. I think the Yamaha broke down 4 times that season and Rossi dumped it at Valencia while leading the championship after Pedrosa messed Haydens chances up. I agree that Hayden picked up the points that Rossi and his team failed to get and was rightly crowned WC but it wasn't very convincing. You saw how much faith Honda had in him by making the 800 to suit Pedrosa the next year.

Awwwnuts makes a good point about the size of WSB riders and the 990's being better suited to their build, more a pure power machine that needed to be handled accordingly than the 800's that seem to need a fluent riding style.

But there again that doesnt explain the Stoner/Ducati relationship, I'm amazed everytime I see Stoner wringing that bikes neck and the fact, up until now, no-one else seems able to control the Ducati anywhere near as well as him. If he stays fit, Stoner will win it next year.

Lorenzo and Rossi will be close, Pedrosa best of the rest, followed by Dovi. I can't see Spies being much better than Toseland or Edwards, I hope I'm wrong and Spies shakes the order up, battling for the top 3 at every race but I don't think so.

 

In that case then my point still stands. Rossi/Yamaha didn't do there job properly. Rossi because he fell off, and Yamaha because the bike kept breaking down, thus making Hayden/Honda deserved champions. I think it wasn't very convincing because he didn't cream eveyone else like Rossi usually does when he wins the title.

I think there could be something in the weight thing. Although there have been a couple of instances where big wsbk guys who can muscle a superbike have done well in a few races, the dainty 250 boys reign supreme right now and thats because the 800's ride like 250 (as rossi said as a warning to spies). Hopefully now with the 600 class we should see more of our boys in the top flight because thats what they've grown up on. Only time will tell

Next year Spies will be mid table because of the newbie law, but if he can get on a top bike the year after he will be a force to be reckoned with.....I hope....because we need more people challenging for the top spot.

 

I will be a little disappointed if he doesnt get a top 10, finish after all look how simoncelli did going from 250 to wsb!!

And when the hell did anyone say that no one but Rossi wins the title, he maybe the best rider out there but it is about the package and at the moment the strongest package is stoner/ducati and am more than convinced thats because of the superior electronics package on the duke!

 

Good point about The Fro, if he can muscle a superbike, why not the other way round. Saying that the RSV4 is a tiny machine.

It's the way people talk about Haydens win: Rossi couldn't win because of his bike, so Hayden doesn't deserve the title because it was 'gifted' to him. It's silly.

[DutchMick]

Of course Hayden deserved to be WC, he had the most points.

[awwwnuts]

I don't know about a gift for Hayden, but Rossi certainly had problems that year. The bike was virtually unrideable at the start of that season due to chatter, and they eventually went back to the previous seasons frame and settings.

I think that Simoncelli was able to ride the Aprilia was because it as been built round Max Biaggi. A man of rather small stature. The bike when you see it up close is tiny, and is built more like a GP bike than say your R1. It was after all built for the track first and road second.

It will be interesting to see how Spies adapts to the bike. There is no question the guy can ride a superbike, but I just can't believe that he will adapt to the 800. I wonder if the Tech 3 will get slipped a few more factory parts quicker next season?

Personally I don't think either the Brits or the Yanks are suited these days to GP's. The field in all classes are dominated by Mediterranean riders. Over there bike racing is massive, second only to football. the kids start on pocket bikes at such a young age, before progressing to 100, and then 125's. Hell they even have an academy.

We just have to face facts that we love our superbikes in this country, and the USA is the same. So lets get the Trans Atlantic Cup going again. Now that was good racing

[DutchMick]

Get the yanks and brits riding round Silverstone on 750cc superbikes!

[techno]

Next year Spies will be mid table because of the newbie law, but if he can get on a top bike the year after he will be a force to be reckoned with.....I hope....because we need more people challenging for the top spot

.

Just a couple of thoughts, the rookie rule says they cant join a factory team, nothing about having a factory bike I believe, so whos to say he doesnt get what the factory guys get?

Has for instance simoncelli been offerered elias's factory honda at the gresini team for instance or would if there getting one would melandri have it??

Also now the engines have to last longer the revs wil be lower and maybe not as much in that department between factory and customer bikes.

The only chance spies has of getting a factory yam is if Lorenzo or Rossi leave which if rumours are to believed thats quite possible

[awwwnuts]

Don't know if anyone caught free practice on Friday, but there was the Spanish commentator on there, who said he had interviewed Lorenzo, and is main reason he said for not quitting Yamaha and taking the Ducati ride was that he feared Spies getting the Yamaha factory ride. I also thought it was funny when he said in the press conference Lorenzo was peering round Rossi to get a look at Spies (bit like hiding behind your big brother to look at the new guy lol).

Think you've hit the nail on the head Techno regarding the engines for next year. Teams are going to have to be a lot more conservative with how they tune the engines. Even now we are seeing Suzuki struggle, so with a bit of luck it will bring the satellite teams closer to the factory teams. i wonder how Ducati will cope knowing how highly tuned there engines are. What with the electronics being kerbed, and the brakes too. It maybe just what we need to bring the racing more close.

Today on ESPN Classic they were showing Rossi's first win on the 500 two strokes at Donnington. You forget how much of an animal those bikes were. its being repeated again this week, along with the top 10 Rossi wins of his career so far. Well worth setting your sky planner for, especially for any people who have not seen the 500 two strokes racing, and to think those bikes had no electronics...scary!

[techno]

will have to look out for those any times??

[techno]

On a side note lots of rookies in motogp next year as well as speeeeez, we have 250 champ aoyama, the best 250 rider simoncelli the wild barbera on a duke and bautista on hopefully an improved suzuki...should be interesting to compare the 250 guys (prob simoncelli) against speeez!

[awwwnuts]

ESPN 9.25pm each night

[techno]

Cheers!!!

[yorbandit]

Well me thinks the man has just answered that question ouitclassed toes and a works honda me thinks edwards will have a fight on his hands all next year

[awwwnuts]

Christ the BBC pictures of Toseland coming back to the garage was like watching someone strangling a puppy.

[DutchMick]

Well me thinks the man has just answered that question ouitclassed toes and a works honda me thinks edwards will have a fight on his hands all next year

 

Certainly looks like it but Toesland was also quick last season, I suppose we'll find out next year, makes it interesting.

[Netmeister]

Just a couple of thoughts, the rookie rule says they cant join a factory team, nothing about having a factory bike I believe, so whos to say he doesnt get what the factory guys get?

 

I was not aware of that. I thought the idea was that they have to gain experience before they're allowed a factory team and bike. In that case it's a bit of a pointless rule then isn't it?

Great result for Spiesy boy yesterday. Beating an ex 125 champion and two time 250 runner up dovi on a factory bike (saying that spies basically had a factory). A taste of things to come me thinks.

....right off to set those ESPN programs on record.

[j4ff]

Of course Hayden deserved to be WC, he had the most points.

 

He was just lucky that Stonner couldnt keep the bike on two wheels and Rossi had about 3 crashes terrible tyres and 4 engine probs.Pedrosa was too small for the 990.The honda had the best package.

Spies done a great job.Good to see him and Edwards at the end whilst cant hack the pace Toesland was bubbling.A happy Tech 3 garage at last.

Once he finds the limit of the bike and tyres he'll be sorted.I predict a top 6 finish for 2010 which will be more than enough expected from a rookie.

[awwwnuts]

There is no doubt Spies will be a strong satellite rider. remember though on Sunday he was riding a test bike, which meant a fresh engine and also probably running a higher spec than Toseland.

Yes Spies did well, but so did Toseland in the first race at Qatar in 2008. Qualified 2nd and finished 6th. Both better than Spies, in not his first premiership race. I'm not making a defense for JT, I never thought he was suited for GP's, but he gave it a go, more than can be said for a certain other British champion, who was offered the chance.

Also dreading next years Laguna race. jeeez its bad enough with all that singing on the grid and cheer leaders. Now we have 3 bloody yanks. Which bike will have the most crappiest American paint scheme