chalkmyster Posted August 18, 2012 Posted August 18, 2012 After fitting new boots and the weekly clean routine ready for a week on the road & I thought I would have a look at the plugs.....OMG one just snapped and the bottom end is still in the engine.Spark plug snapped is the pot on right near center Cam chain (looking forward from seat).Any advice - off to a get a whisky! Quote
mattycoops43 Posted August 18, 2012 Posted August 18, 2012 How much tool experience you got?Cheapest option, take the head off and drill it and helicoil it. helicoil kit about £9 on ebay, and work fine.Depends how seized it is, you could try and drive it out by knocking it on the edge with a screwdriver or chisel and a hammer, but you have to be careful and know what you are doing. You could take the head off and take it somewhere to get done, but to be honest, taking the head off is the hardest part, so you either do that bit yourself, or pay someone else to do it.MattDONT PANIC! It's not the end of the world, and is fairly easily fixable. Quote
chalkmyster Posted August 18, 2012 Author Posted August 18, 2012 How much tool experience you got?Cheapest option, take the head off and drill it and helicoil it. helicoil kit about £9 on ebay, and work fine.Depends how seized it is, you could try and drive it out by knocking it on the edge with a screwdriver or chisel and a hammer, but you have to be careful and know what you are doing. You could take the head off and take it somewhere to get done, but to be honest, taking the head off is the hardest part, so you either do that bit yourself, or pay someone else to do it.MattDONT PANIC! It's not the end of the world, and is fairly easily fixable. Tool experience?? I know what a hammer is and so does the bike now Its just a pain in the ares as I need it and depend on it.I think it is pretty sized, the part of the plug i have out is the knuckle and above so drilling is the only option.To drill I will have to take fairing off etc.... Quote
eastanglianbiker Posted August 18, 2012 Posted August 18, 2012 wouldnt advise drilling it out with the head still on the engine as all the metal fragments will get into he cylinder and around the piston rings wrecking the bores when u start using it again Quote
chalkmyster Posted August 18, 2012 Author Posted August 18, 2012 The better halfhttps://dl.dropbox.com/u/2168611/2012-0 ... .14.17.jpgIt could still work.....right???? Quote
techno Posted August 18, 2012 Posted August 18, 2012 As i dont know what there made of but as someone suggested drilling could you drill and tap it then loctite a bolt in it and maybe get it out that way obviously just a suggestion as i really have no clue about these things as proffesionals only do my bike! Quote
Adam Posted August 18, 2012 Posted August 18, 2012 Drown it in wd40 and leave it for 30 mins and then drown it some more leave it for another 30 mins to soak in, then as suggested above get a flat head screwdriver and a hammer. What you want to do is place the head of the screwdriver on the edge of the sparkplug so the screwdriver is almost vertical and hit it with the hammer do this until there's a little groove, this will give you an area from which the screwdriver won't slip when being hit. Now place the screwdriver at an angle so it's almost horizontal with the head in the groove you created earlier and give it a gentle tap with the hammer (make sure it's anticlockwise!! ) keep gently hitting the screwdriver gradually increasing the force with a bit of luck it will start to turn, if not keep drowning it in wd40 for a day or two and give it another go! Quote
Tango Posted August 18, 2012 Posted August 18, 2012 Head off mate in my humble opinion........you'll be lucky to get enough of an angle to knock the remaining plug round to free it with it in situ.......and any damage to the plug seat or threads and the head would be kn*ckered...... Remove the cylinder head and then you can really get at it and either try to remove it yourself or take it somewhere to get it removed professionally. The cylinder head is alloy.....won't take much of a knock in the wrong place to b*gger it up completely.Obviously just my opinion....but I personally wouldn't risk trying to remove the remaining plug without taking the head off...... Quote
chalkmyster Posted August 18, 2012 Author Posted August 18, 2012 Drown it in wd40 and leave it for 30 mins and then drown it some more leave it for another 30 mins to soak in, then as suggested above get a flat head screwdriver and a hammer. What you want to do is place the head of the screwdriver on the edge of the sparkplug so the screwdriver is almost vertical and hit it with the hammer do this until there's a little groove, this will give you an area from which the screwdriver won't slip when being hit. Now place the screwdriver at an angle so it's almost horizontal with the head in the groove you created earlier and give it a gentle tap with the hammer (make sure it's anticlockwise!! ) keep gently hitting the screwdriver gradually increasing the force with a bit of luck it will start to turn, if not keep drowning it in wd40 for a day or two and give it another go! Chamber is now soaking in WD40, will give it a go tomorrow with the chisel/screwdriver but access is limited. Quote
chalkmyster Posted August 18, 2012 Author Posted August 18, 2012 Head off mate in my humble opinion........you'll be lucky to get enough of an angle to knock the remaining plug round to free it with it in situ.......and any damage to the plug seat or threads and the head would be kn*ckered...... Remove the cylinder head and then you can really get at it and either try to remove it yourself or take it somewhere to get it removed professionally. The cylinder head is alloy.....won't take much of a knock in the wrong place to b*gger it up completely.Obviously just my opinion....but I personally wouldn't risk trying to remove the remaining plug without taking the head off...... Any advice on how to take the head off.....what I need to look out for etc?Haynes manual ready for reading tonight Quote
chalkmyster Posted August 19, 2012 Author Posted August 19, 2012 If I was to purchase a Helicoil set what would be the MK size needed?Also, tempted to take the engine out then take head off, seems to be a lot of crap down the chamber - hoover at the ready. Quote
Stu Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 If your going the hammer and chisel route then make sure the piston is at its lowest point so if it goes through you minimise the risk of killing a piston too Personally I would take the head off Quote
chalkmyster Posted August 19, 2012 Author Posted August 19, 2012 If your going the hammer and chisel route then make sure the piston is at its lowest point so if it goes through you minimise the risk of killing a piston too Personally I would take the head off Taking head off now - well....in the process of removing camshafts....scary stuff Quote
Weebl Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 Before you start drilling and worrying about helicoils, look for a tool called an Easy Out. It is basically a wrong way round screw thread.http://cdn.houserepairtalk.com/attachments/f33/2979d1313072552-need-extractor-tool-help-ez-out.jpgWhat you do is drill a small hole in the centre of what you want to remove, then tap it in so it bites into the plug remains and then undo by tapping gently on the top to keep the threads engaged while turning it anti clockwise which makes the threads bite in and should allow you to undo it without any damage to the threads.http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/813555667_FdNqM-XL.jpgNo need to drill the hole that big and use an easy out that big either, but he was probably being safe. Whatever you do, do not snap one of these off. Quote
mattycoops43 Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 Personally I have NEVER got an easy out to work, and yes, I have tried an expensive one.He needed an easy out that big as it wouldnt work gripping a small hole in the plastic, needs to bite on the metal of the plug.Actually an easy out that size might work after it smashed the remaining plastic bits, but would you REALLY want all that crap falling into your cylinder bore?You MAY find that with head off, there is enough of the bottom end of the plug showing to get something on it. Quote
Weebl Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 Personally I have NEVER got an easy out to work, and yes, I have tried an expensive one.He needed an easy out that big as it wouldnt work gripping a small hole in the plastic, needs to bite on the metal of the plug.Actually an easy out that size might work after it smashed the remaining plastic bits, but would you REALLY want all that crap falling into your cylinder bore?You MAY find that with head off, there is enough of the bottom end of the plug showing to get something on it. I have removed 1000's of screws and bolts over the years with an Easy out, so they do work. You are right of course about the size and the ceramics, he will have had to use it that size to grip on metal You are also right about the bore and the bits, no way would I do it with the head on, definitely a head off job. Quote
chalkmyster Posted August 19, 2012 Author Posted August 19, 2012 Before you start drilling and worrying about helicoils, look for a tool called an Easy Out. It is basically a wrong way round screw thread.http://cdn.houserepairtalk.com/attachments/f33/2979d1313072552-need-extractor-tool-help-ez-out.jpgWhat you do is drill a small hole in the centre of what you want to remove, then tap it in so it bites into the plug remains and then undo by tapping gently on the top to keep the threads engaged while turning it anti clockwise which makes the threads bite in and should allow you to undo it without any damage to the threads.http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/813555667_FdNqM-XL.jpgNo need to drill the hole that big and use an easy out that big either, but he was probably being safe. Whatever you do, do not snap one of these off. Okay, thanks, what size would you recommend? I now have the head off and now only have the outer core of the spark plug. Quote
Weebl Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 Okay, thanks, what size would you recommend? I now have the head off and now only have the outer core of the spark plug. Similar to the one in the picture, it needs to be a nice tight fit. Quote
chalkmyster Posted August 19, 2012 Author Posted August 19, 2012 Okay, thanks, what size would you recommend? I now have the head off and now only have the outer core of the spark plug. Similar to the one in the picture, it needs to be a nice tight fit. Similar to this http://www.amazon.com/Pcs-Easy-Out-Scre ... B000W2950W Quote
pointblank0 Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 Those easy out sets are fantastic. I got given a set about 5 years ago. The set included a small hss drill bit and 5 sizes of the screw things and an adjustable spanner. The set has saved me loads of times.I start with the smallest, then if that starts stripping the part, move on to the next size and so on, though I have never needed to move up more than two sizes. Quote
chalkmyster Posted August 20, 2012 Author Posted August 20, 2012 Right, the head is now off (came off yesterday PM). Sparkplug inner has been removed and now I'm waiting for an "easy out" tool bit to arrive - also that I'm in London until Wednesday PM.Other parts are now on order as well: Head GasketGasket for cam tensioner4x new spark plugsAll should arrive by Wednesday/Thursday....hoepfully.Do I need anything else????Also, any advice on what to look out for during rebuild?Many thanks.Will try and upload some pics tonight. Quote
Boothy Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 Right, the head is now off (came off yesterday PM). Sparkplug inner has been removed and now I'm waiting for an "easy out" tool bit to arrive - also that I'm in London until Wednesday PM.Other parts are now on order as well: Head GasketGasket for cam tensioner4x new spark plugsAll should arrive by Wednesday/Thursday....hoepfully.Do I need anything else????Also, any advice on what to look out for during rebuild?Many thanks.Will try and upload some pics tonight. Only thing I would say is make sure the spark plug rubber things are lined up properly before you tighten up the cover. (you will see what I mean when you get it off.) Quote
chalkmyster Posted August 20, 2012 Author Posted August 20, 2012 Spark plug rubber things?? Where are these located...I have the head off but don't remember seeing any rubber things for the spark plugs. I did see rubber o'rings under head. Quote
eastanglianbiker Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 think thats what he means boothy doesnt always explain himself but he knows what he means just make sure you set the cam timing back up correctly when refitting the cams Quote
chalkmyster Posted August 20, 2012 Author Posted August 20, 2012 The story so far:Cylinder 3Tried to nudge the plug outer but am worried of damaging the bottom of the head....now ordered a bolt removal tool.Got a sore and enlarged thumb today as well.... time for some wine! Quote
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