So my 50cc bike is refusing to start today :-(

[Guest]

Hey,

Despite being a complete bike noob! (this is coming from a guy who fixes cars!) , I just had to come here for help

So, i've owned my bike Peugeot JetForce 50cc for about 2 weeks now. It has always started "first time" , sometimes while applying a bit of throttle on it.

So today, i've replaced my LeoVince exhaust for a quieter exhaust. After fitting it, i tried to start the bike so i can go for a ride. it refuses!

I think i've tried to start the bike for about 10 minutes until the battery went flat. So as i'm typing this, it's on a charger now.

What's wrong ? It started fine , 2 days ago!

Attempted remedies:

- Check petrol (There's actually petrol in the tank as i can see it)

- Check Oil (There's oil in there)

- Remove & Inspect spark plug - I noticed some oil deposits on it. So i used Sanding Paper , until the contacts were clean off , oil.

- I saw a 7.5a fuse next to the battery, - The fuse is OK

- There is a relay next it - The relay is connected anyway.

I don't know what to do now

[Joeman]

check for a spark... leave the plug out, connected to the HT lead, touch the plug to the engine block and press the starter button, and look for a spark.

Careful not to give yourself a shock!!

[Tiggie]

Will it start if you put the old exhaust on?

[acting_strange]

check for a spark... leave the plug out, connected to the HT lead, touch the plug to the engine block and press the starter button, and look for a spark.

Careful not to give yourself a shock!!

 

I once gave my missus the HT lead to hold whilst I tried kicking it over.....she let go of it remarkably quickly.....lol

She got her revenge a few years later when I was wiring something up to the mains and she turned it on....

[mealexme]

Will it start if you put the old exhaust on?

+1. If the only thingthats been changed is the exhaust, it is likely to have something to do with that. I'm not sure what though.

If you got the exhaust 2nd hand, it may have crap in it or may have a hole, it may not be installed correctly or could just be the wrong exhaust for the bike. Its probably worth putting the LV back on to see if it starts, then go from there otherwise you could be looking over a lot of things. Its always best to rule as much as you can out before messing and spending money

[Guest]

Sorry for the delay guys, i haven't touched the bike, since i had exams.

So today,

My new spark plug arrived (NGK IX) and i fitted the brand new plug. Well..... it REFUSES to start!

I couldn't believe, i tried to start it for about 10 minutes, then the battery died, so right now it's charging again. I don't know what's wrong with it.

I tried to download a pdf manual here

http://filer.peugeotscooter.dk/File/Jetforce%20C-Tech/jet_force_c-tech_workshop_manual.pdf

But unfortunatley, it doesn't show me how to troubleshoot starting problems

Yes even though, i changed the exhaust, that's when the problem started. But unfortunately, i HAD to replace the leo vince exhaust as it was corroded & there were a lot of holes on it. The worst part is, it broke in half after removing it (that's how brittle it was)

So, i've thrown it away.

I don't want to believe that an exhaust is the cause of my starting problems, i mean, it's NEW. Surely, a new item can't kill a bike.

I did an experiment, i took the spark plug out, and the engine block now has a hole. I tried to start, it refused to EVEN crank over.

Does this mean, that it knows the plug ISNT there ? (in other words, does it mean the HT lead is still functional ?)

2nd experiment, i removed the Relay which sits next to the battery, i tried to start it. Nothing happens, not even a sound. So does that mean the Relay is functional too ?

I'm running around like a headless chicken now!

[eastanglianbiker]

by removing the spark plug the engine should still spin over on the starter motor but will just whizz round,the other thing you removed will be the starter solinoid so no the engine will not turn over once thats removed,is there is fuse on the side of that unit?if so has it blown replace it with 20 amp one,is the engine not turning over with the plug out if not then ite either battery is dead starter solinoid is not working or the starter motor might of died.also check condition of all connections around battery and so on

[Guest]

by removing the spark plug the engine should still spin over on the starter motor but will just whizz round,the other thing you removed will be the starter solinoid so no the engine will not turn over once thats removed,is there is fuse on the side of that unit?if so has it blown replace it with 20 amp one,is the engine not turning over with the plug out if not then ite either battery is dead starter solinoid is not working or the starter motor might of died.also check condition of all connections around battery and so on

I've just gone outside

Took the plug out & put the plug inside the HT lead.

The plug is definitely sparking, because i can see blue/yellow sparks on it.

So it means the coil is OK ? Otherwise i wouldn't see sparks.

Battery is also charged up

The only fuse i can see is a 7.5amp next to a battery & it is intact (not broken).

What else can i do ?

- PS. I've just realized the manual kickstart doesn't work, because i tried to kick, nothing happens. The leg just simply springs back to it's off position.

I tried pushing the leg with my hand, nothing happens, it just springs back up. So i'm guessing the previous owner killed the manual start then ?

[eastanglianbiker]

now you need to check or try to remember when you took the spark plug out was it wet or dry as it could of been getting to much or to little fuel into the cylinder,otherwise you are going to need to do a compression check on the engine to make sure you havent lost compression

[Guest]

now you need to check or try to remember when you took the spark plug out was it wet or dry as it could of been getting to much or to little fuel into the cylinder,otherwise you are going to need to do a compression check on the engine to make sure you havent lost compression

When i took out the plug today,

I think it was mostly dry as it didn't appear wet.

Could the carb have anything to do with this ?

I tested the auto choke thing, i was getting 15ohms (i was told that it should be 10-20)

I took the carb unit out , while i was holding the carb in the air , didn't see any petrol dripping while someone else was helping me try to the bike. Even while on full throttle.

Is that normal ? as that's the only unit i can see, where the fuel line is going to.

[eastanglianbiker]

are you sure it hasnt run out of petrol??

[acting_strange]

OK....from your reply I think its time for engines for dummies....please start here by learning about carburation...http://www.howstuffworks.com/question377.htm

[Guest]

OK....from your reply I think its time for engines for dummies....please start here by learning about carburation...http://www.howstuffworks.com/question377.htm

lol okay, i'll have a look then , thanks for the link

 

are you sure it hasnt run out of petrol??

I don't normally trust the gauge, but when its on ignition the needle is on "half"

So i opened the fuel cap, i can "see" that there is petrol there...

[acting_strange]

does the bike have a fuel "on/off" switch?

If it does and you turn it on does fuel run out?

[Guest]

does the bike have a fuel "on/off" switch?

If it does and you turn it on does fuel run out?

I doubt it.

Otherwise, where would you find it ?

When i purchased the bike,

- I opened the seat to access the storage bucket

- I saw a switch labelled "pump"

- The wires had been CUT off.

- Upon closer inspection, i noticed that this bike wasn't meant to have a switch, because the hole was drilled by a cowboy!

So regardless of the disconnected switch, the bike ran fine. Even the first few multiple starts, were successful.

[Guest]

BTW,

In regards to the auto-choke/carb. I already know the unit is giving me 15ohms (15.2 to be precise)

However, I measured the "voltage" at the plug that connects to the carb/choke . I got 0 volts, even while the ignition is on.

Is that normal? Unless voltage is supplied when i try to start ?

2nd experiment...

- The Oil Pump wire has been reading 8-9 volts at the ignition. Well least i know the power is being fed, but i don't know if the pump works or not (unless it moves while i try to start the bike ? )

[eastanglianbiker]

BTW,

In regards to the auto-choke/carb. I already know the unit is giving me 15ohms (15.2 to be precise)

However, I measured the "voltage" at the plug that connects to the carb/choke . I got 0 volts, even while the ignition is on.

Is that normal? Unless voltage is supplied when i try to start ?

try it

2nd experiment...

- The Oil Pump wire has been reading 8-9 volts at the ignition. Well least i know the power is being fed, but i don't know if the pump works or not (unless it moves while i try to start the bike ? )

is the oil pump eletric then they are normally cable operated or mechanicly drivven off the crankshaft

[Guest]

is the oil pump eletric then they are normally cable operated or mechanicly drivven off the crankshaft

 

The Oil Pump looks like this exactly

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/PEUGEOT-LUDIX-ONE-50-OIL-PUMP-/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/$(KGrHqJ,!hQFC7g9QEKjBQ-rm+z)t!~~60_12.JPG

Also, according to the PDF manual (& my visual inspection)

it has a control unit & a regulator, with a bunch of wires going to those units.

[Guest]

I don't even know where to begin, so

10AM

I took the bike apart, so i can remove the carb

The carb bleed screw was loosend, and fuel was dripping down. So fuel is going there, that's great.

put the carb back ,& tried to start it. After 10 tries i gave up

11am

took the bike apart again

I remove the FUEL line going to the carb and remove the NGK spark plug

I pointed the fuel line INSIDE the spark plug hole, (as suggested hammerong )

I refitted the plug , connect the HT lead

Also reconnected back the fuel line to the carb

I tried to start the bike, it kept coughing up , so after few tries i gave up

12pm

quickly after having lunch

i took the bike apart for the 3rd time

Remove the FUEL line off the carb

remove the Vacuum line of the engine block

While the air was being sucked out of the vacumm pipe, fuel was actually dripping out on its line. So i know there isn't a problem on the fuel side.

1pm

spent about half an hour swearing at the bike (that's how frustrating it was!)

checked ALL wires going to the carb, and oil control units, everything seemed plugged in well.

I tried to start it , it refuses , i gave up

I closed the bike completely

2pm,

I tried to start it few more final times,

VOILA!

IT FINALLY STARTS!!!!

I couldn't believe it. I don't know what caused it and i don't know how it was fixed! But the bike was left outside idling for 10 minutes while i fetch my helmet.

The bike was STILL idling! - So i've taken it for a ride for a total of 20 miles (ish) , so right now it starts first time.

What a day!

[Guest]

Update:

Well today my happiness has been shortlived again

The bike is refusing to start today, i've tried multiple times until the battery went flat.

So right now it's charging..... i think the starter motor hates me now, as i must be adding a lot of stress to it.

What went wrong this time ? - I'm so frustrated right now!

Well right now, i'm going to go and swear at the bike!

[klingelton]

where in yorkshire are you?

perhaps I can come over and help swear at your bike...

[Guest]

where in yorkshire are you?

perhaps I can come over and help swear at your bike...

I live in leeds mate,

(i guess you do too, according to your profile)

Right now, i'm drawing air OUT of the vacuum pipe, and i can see petrol coming out of the fuel line. So again, the fuel system is OK.

I just can't think of a reason for not starting

[Guest]

Update again,

It has finally started after multiple tries until up to midday.

Even when i disconnected the vac hose, then removed the fuel line, then removed the carb unit. The fuel line was shoved inside a rubber intake duct,

As i was drawing OUT air from the vac hose, i could hear petrol dripping inside the engine, so i did that for about 5 minutes....

I tried to start it, it still refuses!

So much later in the day, when i stopped swearing, i tried to start it, at first, it coughs ONCE , then dies, cough once again, then die , etc etc..... until the 10 time , it finally starts

I had to hold the throttle to maximum, until it was able to idle itself.

I took it for a 30 minute ride, with a few stops. On each stop, it always starts FIRST time..., sometimes it starts before the crank even finishes the circle.

This damnnn bike!! - Now i feel like it's been a waste of £400

[acting_strange]

This sounds like a compression problem....when its hot (and things get tighter) it runs ok....when its cold (and things shrink) it doesnt start....treat yourself to a compression tester..they are not that expensive...test the compression, then put some oil in the bore and test it again.... see what the difference is...