"Watchman" speed cameras

[Caballero]

Does anyone know whether these have type approval, and whether they can be used in traffic offence prosecutions?

Several of them have cropped up almost overnight around my way. All painted in a grey that matches the road surface. They're very difficult to see. I've Googled, and have found many posts (the most recent of which are from 2013) on various forums, saying that this type of camera doesn't have Home Office type approval. I've also checked the 3 lists on the Home Office website:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/home-office-approved-speed-detection-devices-march-2007" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Watchman" doesn't appear in the lists of approved devices, but I don't trust the government website to be updated often enough to be the last word on the matter.

If these devices don't have Home Office type approval, why is the local council putting these up? I assume it's the council and not the notorious 'Safety Camera Partnership'. Do you know of anyone having received a fine or points through one of these?

[MrBrightside]

Yes, they will nab you for offences, and yes, you can be prosecuted by the evidence they provide

[JRH]

See this

http://www.speedcamerasuk.com/watchman.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Say last update Feb 2016 still awaiting type approval.

Seem to be able to calculate approach speed

[Caballero]

Oh OK. Thanks for the info. I really dislike these deceptive revenue collection tactics fatuously veiled as road safety measures. So far, it seems 3 I've seen are painted road-grey, and a 4th is not only painted road-grey but disguised as an electronic fuse box! I'll take a photo some time. It really beggars belief. 21st century highway robbery.

[MrBrightside]

They are quite rare in the camera world, but as far as I was aware,they have been type approved as they have been on the streets over 10 years, so I'd be shocked if they weren't type approved.

If in doubt, write to your local forces traffic criminal justice unit and clarify.

[Caballero]

See this

http://www.speedcamerasuk.com/watchman.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Say last update Feb 2016 still awaiting type approval.

Seem to be able to calculate approach speed

 

Now that's interesting. Other camera types on that website have been updated more recently (I've seen a 6th July 2016 update), so presumably that means no type approval as yet.

Recently there seem to be a lot more of those LED speed indicators on local roads (Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire), which show you your speed inside a circle as you approach. From what I understand, those are Watchman-powered, and check your speed from the front. A couple of times, they have shown me absurd figures, maybe because they were broken or because they have trouble seeing a narrow bike. Figures like 3 or 4 mph while I was doing 30.

However, these new ones that are coming up over the past couple of days have no speed advisory LED displays. Their only possible use can be revenue. Perhaps the type approval of Watchman is pending very soon.

[tuktuk]

How can it be a rear facing camera, but monitor your speed as you approach it?

''Slowing down just as you reach the Watchman speed camera isn't enough as your speed will have already been monitored and will be recorded as you pass the camera, together with a photo of your vehicle.''

[Caballero]

How can it be a rear facing camera, but monitor your speed as you approach it?

''Slowing down just as you reach the Watchman speed camera isn't enough as your speed will have already been monitored and will be recorded as you pass the camera, together with a photo of your vehicle.''

 

I don't know, but it's pretty interesting. According to the online descriptions of this camera, it uses radar, similar to a police radar gun, to calculate the approach speed. The camera bit is separate from the speed detector, but may be triggered by the speed detector. It may be troublesome for motorcycles, because even if the speed detector detects an incoming vehicle approaching at a speed in excess of the speed limit, the camera, if facing the opposite way ('rear facing') might snap a different vehicle. This might happen if, say, a speeding BMW approaches the camera at high speed, sees it at the last moment, slams on the brake and does a U-turn or handbrake turn just before he passes the Watchman, and then the motorbike travelling within the speed limit passes that BMW and gets snapped by the rear-facing camera for 'speeding'!

[Joeman]

Drone with a spraypaint can required...

[JRH]

How can it be a rear facing camera, but monitor your speed as you approach it?

''Slowing down just as you reach the Watchman speed camera isn't enough as your speed will have already been monitored and will be recorded as you pass the camera, together with a photo of your vehicle.''

 

laser measuring from the back of the unit, calculate speed and then trigger as you pass, think that is what the write up is saying. so slowing suddenly won't work, allegedly

[Glorian]

Just remove your front license plate from the bike and you-... oh right.

[Caballero]

Drone with a spraypaint can required...

 

It is rather brazen, the way they've posted these theft boxes all over the place. According to some reports, the Watchman is able to send a continuous realtime video image to a control room. It would be nice to figure out how they work.

[Caballero]

Just remove your front license plate from the bike and you-... oh right.

 

Not sure how it would work for bikes. Bikes have no front number plate, but this camera type can have rearward-facing image capture, which raises the question of how it would know that the vehicle whose speed has been recorded is the same one that has been image captured. The only foolproof way around it would be to have both the lazer or radar (?) and the image capture camera both rearward-facing. In which case it shouldn't be possible to catch bikes that slow down on approach to the camera out.

[Caballero]

Do you see the camera in this photo?

If you do, congratulations. But even so, if you were riding along this road, you would be more likely to notice the 40mph speed limit sign that's 15 meters beyond the camera. You see, the camera is in a 30 limit, and is cunningly disguised as some sort of electrical fuse box.

[Caballero]

Up close photos of the device. It may look old, but it's just crudely installed, maybe on purpose so that the finish doesn't look too new. It hasn't been there even a week.

[Joeman]

Drone with a spraypaint can required...

 

It is rather brazen, the way they've posted these theft boxes all over the place. According to some reports, the Watchman is able to send a continuous realtime video image to a control room. It would be nice to figure out how they work.

 

So long as they are making profit, they will continue to use them.

If the maintenance and upkeep were to exceed the revenue generated they would have to stop. simple economics...

with social media, that would be very easy to coordinate

[XmisterIS]

I'm on the fence with this one ... some cameras are definitely there to make a profit, others I think are genuinely there as a deterrent. E.g. I will give it socks out on the Nat speed limit roads, but I will go easy through built-up areas. E.g. the other day I was out for a blast, slowed down for a village as I normally do, came round the corner and there was (a) a speed camera van and (b) a primary school (with kids running around). Personally, I wouldn't go blasting through a village because of hazards, and also out of respect for the people who live there - so a watchman speed camera wouldn't be a problem there. When they start putting them in remote areas where there are reduced hazards, then they can f**k right off!

[RantMachine]

I'll just leave this here...

http://www.speedflip.com/

[MrBrightside]

Naughty Rant!

[XmisterIS]

I'll just leave this here...

http://www.speedflip.com/

[Hoggs]

" for show purposes only "

[johnakay]

A network of Watchman cameras and vehicle actuated boards have been introduced throughout the Borough to encourage road users to drive more slowly thereby helping the Council to lower the number of collisions occurring

Photo of a watchman speed camera Safety Cameras (Watchman) Photo of a watchman speed camera

These boards remind road users, that are travelling over the speed limit with a message asking them to "Slow Down". The boards also record vehicles speeds that enable traffic engineers to build up speed profiles of the roads covered. This enables the Council to identify speed hotspots and take the necessary action.

no they dont catch you speeding and you receive a nip.

these are all over here in teesside.

I think its a good thing and it does work as it make the drivers more aware of the traveling speeds.