Fleck Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 Make sure your battery hasn't gone flat. Sparks don't mean it has enough power in it to turn an engine over. Quote
BIKERDAD Posted January 7, 2019 Author Posted January 7, 2019 When you put the red wire to the bolt , are you sure that all the insulating washers are in the right order so that the brushes are completely isolatedHmmmm there was only one rubber washer on the bolt ..that's on outside I thought it was to stop any water getting in . Stupid question alert how many washers should there be and where should they be . Quote
BIKERDAD Posted January 7, 2019 Author Posted January 7, 2019 Ok went out stripped the back off the starter put the rubber washer on the inside of the starter and then put another washer on the outside . Put the 1st nut on to hold it all the bench tested it .... nothing .. so put it back on the bike and just for laugh pushed the starter button......... nothing.... So taken it back off checked the same again in pic 15 copper round thing all way round all between 4 and 5 on the meater .. from the copper to the steel rod ... nothing I then put the black prob on the steel rod and with the red one touch all parts of the starter everything showed a reading EXCEPT copper ring to the steel rod in the centre. So the armature is knackered YES If anyone has anything else I can try let me know plz . Also I need the bike starting before the 26th this month as its due for MOT.. feck it ....... Quote
BIKERDAD Posted January 7, 2019 Author Posted January 7, 2019 Hi I think.iv read the pic 16 part wrong. The copper ring and the steel rod is not to have any continuity so it should show nothing . If that is right then that's not nackerd .. as the starter moves a bit feely now as iv been turning it by the copper ring part but still does not start or turn when i put jump leads to it . One thing when I put the cable back on to the starter when its back on the bike should it spark or not .. when i 1st put the wire ring over the bolt then I put the nut back on . Tighten it up . Should there be spark or not Quote
fastbob Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 Hi I think.iv read the pic 16 part wrong. The copper ring and the steel rod is not to have any continuity so it should show nothing . If that is right then that's not nackerd .. as the starter moves a bit feely now as iv been turning it by the copper ring part but still does not start or turn when i put jump leads to it . One thing when I put the cable back on to the starter when its back on the bike should it spark or not .. when i 1st put the wire ring over the bolt then I put the nut back on . Tighten it up . Should there be spark or notNo there shouldn't be a spark . There should only be current through the starter motor when the button is pressed which in turn operates the starter solenoid. Quote
BIKERDAD Posted January 7, 2019 Author Posted January 7, 2019 Cheers FB no my bolt does not have all that around it . It's got 2 rubber washers now . Still not starting . As for.spark thinking about it yea . Quote
fastbob Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 Cheers FB no my bolt does not have all that around it . It's got 2 rubber washers now . Still not starting . As for.spark thinking about it yea . So no part of the bolt,nut or lead is in electrical contact with the casing or anything else except the carbon brushes inside ? How about some pictures , the more the merrier, someone might spot what's wrong here . I , for one , would love to see the condition of the commutator . Quote
BIKERDAD Posted January 8, 2019 Author Posted January 8, 2019 Still no life . I fell the starter turns a bit easyer now.when I hold the copper ring its not as tight as it was at the beginning . Still won't turn on the bike.. Quote
JRH Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 Not easy to see but in the first picture do both of the brushes touch the copper commutator.Are both brushes free to move in the holders because in pictures 6&8 the one brush appears shorter than the other. Also the commutator looks as thought there has been some arcing which could be caused by a brush not being pressed hard onto the copper. Also check the springs are free to push the brushes. Quote
BIKERDAD Posted January 8, 2019 Author Posted January 8, 2019 Hi the brushes move freely .. the long one is the new one I put in its Honda genuian part .. they do touch as I put the brushes part on to make sure as I think FB asked to check they do touch . Quote
BIKERDAD Posted January 8, 2019 Author Posted January 8, 2019 Where does it look like it's arcing ?? It's is very dirty but if cleaned it up when I taken it out at 1st It was covered in oil .. the only part I think show arcing its the top of.the bolt when I bench tested it .. .Thinking about buying a new one as this one a mess but if I buy a new starter Quote
fastbob Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 Have you put the other new brush in yet ? Also , when you put it in the bike is the solenoid clicking when it doesn't work ? Regarding the commutator , it doesn't look too bad but I would buff it up a bit with some very fine emery paper ( 1500 ) Don't give up yet , it may still be fixable . Quote
BIKERDAD Posted January 8, 2019 Author Posted January 8, 2019 Yea the new one is in that's how there 2 different sizes but they both touch the copper ring .. the solenoid don't make any noise at all . As the last one I had the bike wouldn't start changed that and it started its only year old . There's no noise at all when I push the start button . How about bump starting the bike will that shake things in to place ????? Quote
BIKERDAD Posted January 8, 2019 Author Posted January 8, 2019 If I bump start it . ( 2an grear like the car ?????l and take it to a garage how long Do you think it take a mechanic to work out what's wrong .. As I'm sure they must have done this before ???? So a hours work just to tell me what's bust and a price to fix .. Quote
fastbob Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 If I bump start it . ( 2an grear like the car ?????l and take it to a garage how long Do you think it take a mechanic to work out what's wrong .. As I'm sure they must have done this before ???? So a hours work just to tell me what's bust and a price to fix .. Right, we might be getting somewhere ! The solenoid absolutely SHOULD be clicking when you press the starter button . So that's something to investigate . Regarding bump starting it , no need , any good mechanic should be able to rebuild the starter motor and test it if you just take it in . Have you tried just using a battery and sticking a negative lead on the starter body and touching the positive on the terminal bolt ? It it spins then you know its the solenoid or even the switch gear and wiring loom . I've seen plenty of starter motors that look no worse than yours that are working fine . Quote
fastbob Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 Yea the new one is in that's how there 2 different sizes but they both touch the copper ring .. the solenoid don't make any noise at all . As the last one I had the bike wouldn't start changed that and it started its only year old . There's no noise at all when I push the start button . How about bump starting the bike will that shake things in to place ????? Sorry mate , why are the brushes still two different sizes now that you have put two new ones in ? Did you solder them properly? When I did mine recently it was a swine to get the solder to flow on such a big piece of metal . In the factory they are spot welded . This is my starter before I put it back together, commutator polished and new brushes in , note the equal length. Quote
BIKERDAD Posted January 9, 2019 Author Posted January 9, 2019 No I only changed one . As the smaller one is about 3 time the size the old bolt one i taken out .. Should I change both ???? As the bolt brush is the one that was really worn . Inthinknits pic 1 really worn it was just a cull mil sticking thro the holder I needed to be changed... I have bench tested the starter by taken it out the bike putting jump leads on to the body of the starter (black lead ) then red lead on to the bolt and nothing moved . It just sparked when I touched the bolt with the red jump lead .. The solenoid is less then a year old but no noise when pushing the starter When I 1st had probs around this time last year the bike wouldn't start I think it was one of my 1st questions on here and I changed the solenoid and it started . But this time no noise.. also last year when I pushed the starter and it clicked the dash lights went a bit dim to this time nothing lights don't change at all . Quote
BIKERDAD Posted January 9, 2019 Author Posted January 9, 2019 Just looked at the pic you posted .. you have a gold looking thing in the bottom of the cap . We're the steel rod goes . Just looked at my pics and I don't have one ?????? Nothing fell out when I opened the cap as I had it all on a white sheep paper Quote
BIKERDAD Posted January 9, 2019 Author Posted January 9, 2019 Sorry pic 5 .. the old brunch is in pic5 .. look at pic 6 you see there No gold bit in the hole were the steel rod goes Quote
fastbob Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 If you're sure there's good contact then the brushes don't have to be the same length. I'm sorry to say that I'm all out of suggestions other than to turn it over to a mechanic or a starter motor specialist. I don't want to depress you but there bugger all on eBay right now . Bring back kickstarts I say . Quote
fastbob Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 Sorry pic 5 .. the old brunch is in pic5 .. look at pic 6 you see there No gold bit in the hole were the steel rod goes I see what you mean , I'm not sure what the purpose is . Is it a contact or just a brass bush of a different design to yours ? Quote
fastbob Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 Whatever it does it might benefit from a clean. Quote
TimR Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 before you go too mad can i stop you.Honda cb750 1975 P reg use a Mitsuba SM-228 starterHonda cb750 1996 P Reg use a Mitsuba SM-15 starter Honda cbr125 use a Mitsuba SM-15 starter .( edited as i used wrong copy/paste function ) Quote
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