Flooded Engine

[Guest]

Hey

Think my engine is flooding for some reason, it starts then after a while dies and using the electric or kick start just wont start.

Sometimes with electric I can give a little throttle while holding the button in, let go of the button and it will stay but if I let go it will die or if I rev higher it will die.

How can I stop this happening? I have already disconnected the auto-choke but it still happens (I thought it might be choking too much).

I posted a picture of my spark plug, its a little black does that mean its getting too much fuel? How can I adjust how much fuel it gets on the carb?

Calum

[dredge3]

Doesnt sound like flooding. Clean your plug them warm it on oven flame. Put in bike and post back what happens.Once engine is warm it shouldn't flood as bike would burn fuel off, but run rich.

Check air filter as well mate. Change plug if above doesn't help

[Guest]

Doesnt sound like flooding. Clean your plug them warm it on oven flame. Put in bike and post back what happens.Once engine is warm it shouldn't flood as bike would burn fuel off, but run rich.

Check air filter as well mate. Change plug if above doesn't help

 

Hey mate thanks for the quick reply. I don't know much about bikes really just going on the some stuff I don't really know

What normally happens is that with the electric start on it wont start, but with the tiniest bit of throttle it will. Then once its started it will either stay or go, it doesn't matter whether I leave it, or WOT or whatever sometimes it will just die.

But normally after just trying to start it for 10-15 minutes it will start. Or if I leave it for an hour or so it will start straight away. I tried what you said, and it started first time - that was after it failed to start 40 minutes earlier.

I changed the plug a few months back - but I know they go quick. I ordered some more, two platinums and an iridium plug apparently they are better so I will try that.

The air filter - is that inside the air box on the bike? Sorry I don't know that much, can I just take off the air box/take the cover off and look at the filter? What should I look for? Dirt and stuff that will stop air? Is there any way I can clean it?

Sorry for all the questions, this is my first bike still in the basic learning stages

[Guest]

I had a look inside the air box and found the air filter.

It was a little yellow on one side, and smelt of oil or petrol or something. There was also some grit in the air box. All I did was clean out the grit.

It did start, but took 10-20 seconds on the button before it did.

I have ordered a new filter though maybe it will make a difference.

[Bill_on_a_bike]

That's no flooding!

Sounds to me like it's just cold, you got the choke on? Engines will run rich when they're cold aswell. Nurse it with the throttle until it's running a bit better and take it for a run.

Best way to warm an engine up is with gentle riding, not ragging it, but just riding gently.

[Pete]

As soon as I started reading about the black spark plugs I was going to suggest a look at the air filter, so nice one for sorting that. To be totally sure it's the air filter at fault try taking it out (just the filter, leave the housing/box that it screws into) and fire it up. If it fires straight away then the problem was definately the air filter being blocked. I had a similar problem on my bike and through trial and error found it to be the air filter, blocked with cr*p over years and years! Got a new one in now and it starts on the button. Strange how the little things cause the biggest problems.

I noticed you mentioned getting 2 platinum spark plugs and an iridium one. You should really only use matching spark plugs to be honest. I use the iridium IX ones and they're great.

[Foz]

i had the same problem! would start after a while then would cut out if you didnt rev, but if you rev too much it would still cut out!

turned out i had a rusty inside tank and all the shite was going through the engine

[Guest]

Bill_on_a_bike; My bike has an auto-choke - I was originally told this was stuck on causing it to always choke and then flood, so I disconnected it. For the last few months I have been able to start it without the choke with a little throttle. But when I start it even if I don't rev, rev it a little or rev it a lot sometimes it will die within 5 or so seconds and I can do nothing about it. And after that it is basically impossible to start. With the electric it will turn and with a little bit of throttle I can let go of the electric. It will still run very badly, if I rev more it will die and rev less it will die. Thanks for the help

Right now its 15-20 degrees C here.

SuzukiPete; Was it noticeably dirty though? Mine looks clean, but I have ordered a new one. I will try exactly what you said, sounds like a good idea. My bike only has one cylinder, I just wanted to buy an iridium to test and have some spares. Thanks for the help Hopefully it will be the air filter when I get a new one. I'm gonna first put the new air filter in, see if it starts on the old plug - then try the new iridium one when it arrives.

Foz; My bike is 05, so its only like 4 years old. There is a little rust on the exhaust, but no other noticeably rusty parts. I will try and take a look at the tank, but it might be hard to drain it etc.

Thanks everyone your a great help

[Pete]

Firstly like Foz says some of the bad sh*t could have gotten in somewhere, even if it is only 4 years old. If it's been left standing for a while water could have 'occured' inside the tank and rusted it a bit, but personally I doubt that's happened, unless it's been left for a really long time (i.e. months and months on end). If it's still running badly after the air filter change it could be something in the fuel line so I'd usually say chuck some Redex or similar through. Again the reason is because if it's left standing for a long time with petrol in the tank then the nastys can seperate and gum up the inner workings of your pony.

Anyway, at four years old it's unlikely to be a problem with the fuel line like I've described, but is possible. I'd say more likely the air filter, so whip it out and crank her up! When I got mine out it LOOKED OK, maybe ever so slightly yellow but nothing that stood out. Actually I didn't elaborate much in my last post. What happened was that I sprayed some carb cleaner fairly liberally into my air filter to clean it up, put it back in and it sometimes wouldn't start! Hence why I realised a clogged air filter would cause the problems you've described (clogged with...er, carb cleaner! Don't tell anybody, I'll get very embarrassed)

[Guest]

Firstly like Foz says some of the bad sh*t could have gotten in somewhere, even if it is only 4 years old. If it's been left standing for a while water could have 'occured' inside the tank and rusted it a bit, but personally I doubt that's happened, unless it's been left for a really long time (i.e. months and months on end). If it's still running badly after the air filter change it could be something in the fuel line so I'd usually say chuck some Redex or similar through. Again the reason is because if it's left standing for a long time with petrol in the tank then the nastys can seperate and gum up the inner workings of your pony.

Anyway, at four years old it's unlikely to be a problem with the fuel line like I've described, but is possible. I'd say more likely the air filter, so whip it out and crank her up! When I got mine out it LOOKED OK, maybe ever so slightly yellow but nothing that stood out. Actually I didn't elaborate much in my last post. What happened was that I sprayed some carb cleaner fairly liberally into my air filter to clean it up, put it back in and it sometimes wouldn't start! Hence why I realised a clogged air filter would cause the problems you've described (clogged with...er, carb cleaner! Don't tell anybody, I'll get very embarrassed)

 

Ah ok - I'm gonna go out to check the air filter now will take it out the shed its a bit dusty in their don't want anything to get in without the filter. My filter was a bit yellow, very yellow on one side.

Your mistake wasn't as bad as when I almost put 2T oil in the coolant tank :/ Anyway I will try it without the filter now and await the other one to arrive. Apparently the new one is better than the standard one anyway has better air flow.

The old owner left it standing for 1-2 months, most I've left it is 2 weeks while on holiday, but I ride it at least every 2 days normally.

[Guest]

Also I forgot to say my filter had oily stuff on it, maybe petrol dunno is it meant to be like that? What will I have to put on my new filter?

[Pete]

Yeah don't worry about the oilly stuff it's supposed to have a little bit on there. It's called air filter oil and it helps trap bits of dirt instead of letting them get through to the engine. About the yellow stuff though, that shouldn't be there

My fingers are crossed for you mate........

[Pete]

I've just stumbled across this interesting video on air filters. Even if your problem isn't the air filter (I hope it is just that!) it's still one to watch:

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[Guest]

I've just stumbled across this interesting video on air filters. Even if your problem isn't the air filter (I hope it is just that!) it's still one to watch:

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Hey mate. Ok I took out the air filter, put the box back together and back on - same result

Tried for a while, but still wouldn't go. Put the air filter back on and checked the plug again. It was slightly wet and oily. Cleaned it, put it back in and the starter turned it over.

I then realised I hadn't plugged back in the HT lead but then it did start. But, maybe it didn't start without the air filter because the plug was wet?

The plug could have been black/wet back I was trying to start it earlier with the air filter in, so it was far too rich. So it was wet meaning it wouldn't spark hence wouldn't start without the air filter?

Any idea why the spark plug goes black? If it is that there is too much fuel so its running too rich, how can I make it run more lean? Thanks for your help - hopefully when I replace the air filter and plug it will work

[Guest]

I've just stumbled across this interesting video on air filters. Even if your problem isn't the air filter (I hope it is just that!) it's still one to watch:

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Was watching that pretty interesting - will my air filter come with the oil you talked about? I think over time also the oil has gone down the filter its much more oily at the bottom than at the top.

[Pete]

We like a good laugh with our bikes!

A black, wet, oily spark plug on a 2 stroke engine is usually a sign of excess lubricant so first thing I'd do now is check your oil level and make sure it's not too high. If it's a four stroke engine it could be an oil leakage past the piston rings or valve guides (according to Haynes). The damage to the rings and valve guides are doubtful, again because of the age of the bike.

Definately check the oil level, that might have something to do with it and it could also be the answer to why you have a yellow bit on the air filter (new oil is yellow).

From what you've been describing it sounds like you definately need a new air filter, an Iridium IX spark plug is good (I like them), but changing them probably won't fix the wet and oily spark plug so best to track that down before fitting the new parts...first step, check the oil level!

p.s. what bike is it by the way?

[Guest]

We like a good laugh with our bikes!

A black, wet, oily spark plug on a 2 stroke engine is usually a sign of excess lubricant so first thing I'd do now is check your oil level and make sure it's not too high. If it's a four stroke engine it could be an oil leakage past the piston rings or valve guides (according to Haynes). The damage to the rings and valve guides are doubtful, again because of the age of the bike.

Definately check the oil level, that might have something to do with it and it could also be the answer to why you have a yellow bit on the air filter (new oil is yellow).

From what you've been describing it sounds like you definately need a new air filter, an Iridium IX spark plug is good (I like them), but changing them probably won't fix the wet and oily spark plug so best to track that down before fitting the new parts...first step, check the oil level!

 

Haha yeah

It is a 2 stoke, and whenever I fill my oil I normally forget there is a max mark and fill it to the top - I just thought it would pump whatever it needs but I won't be doing that again thanks.

That's very helpful because it actually started acting up again the last time I topped up the oil, gave it a clean, checked all the brakes etc.

I will go check how much oil there actually is now - I am also waiting for my IX plug to arrive, but I think I will run a platinum first to see if it goes black don't want to waste the iridium one if the problem isn't fixed.

Again, thanks for all your help I'm learning a lot

[Pete]

No worries mate! It's good that you're the sort who's willing to give it a go. I find the best way of learning how stuff works is to f*ck it up once and then you know not to do it again in future (like leaving the oil filler cap off the first time you do an oil and filter change so the bike p*sses oil all up the inside of your fairing )!

Sounds like we could be on to something with this oil thing. Why not nip up to Halfords and buy a brass wire brush, clean the existing spark plug and use that and see if it goes black (to save all your new plugs). They're about £2.50. It should be a brass wire brush not steel. A steel one could break bits of brush off and ingrain into the plug and introduce rust. Brass won't

[Guest]

No worries mate! It's good that you're the sort who's willing to give it a go. I find the best way of learning how stuff works is to f*ck it up once and then you know not to do it again in future (like leaving the oil filler cap off the first time you do an oil and filter change so the bike p*sses oil all up the inside of your fairing )!

Sounds like we could be on to something with this oil thing. Why not nip up to Halfords and buy a brass wire brush, clean the existing spark plug and use that and see if it goes black (to save all your new plugs). They're about £2.50. It should be a brass wire brush not steel. A steel one could break bits of brush off and ingrain into the plug and introduce rust. Brass won't

 

Ok - I got a brass brush with my bike toolkit, had no idea what it was for but have now clean the plug with it. I've got it started, I let it idle/low rev for 30 seconds, then let the throttle wide open. It was very smoky, but it did run and didn't die.

The oil is currently not at the brim, but is very high.

[Pete]

If there is too much oil in there it's tempting to just take the filler cap off, run it for a bit and let excess oil sputter out a bit to lower the level. But don't do that. Partly because you'll get oil everywhere, but mainly because the oil needs to be under pressure to get around the engine properly and taking the cap off will do bad things...

Not saying you were going to do that, but it's what a lot of people think of and run into bother. Best thing to do if it's really over filled is to bite the bullet and drain the oil and put a new load in.

Like I said before, I bet you won't overfill it again!

[Guest]

If there is too much oil in there it's tempting to just take the filler cap off, run it for a bit and let excess oil sputter out a bit to lower the level. But don't do that. Partly because you'll get oil everywhere, but mainly because the oil needs to be under pressure to get around the engine properly and taking the cap off will do bad things...

Not saying you were going to do that, but it's what a lot of people think of and run into bother. Best thing to do if it's really over filled is to bite the bullet and drain the oil and put a new load in.

Like I said before, I bet you won't overfill it again!

 

I wasn't planning on doing that, but I was contemplating a few other things :/ but I will just drain it.

Nope, I will never overfill it again . I'm gonna try drain it then. I am really hopeful this and the air filter will work well, especially because I have always been told its running too rich (hence the air filter) and this started happening again after I put lots of oil in.

Thanks for your help mate

[Pete]

That's OK, bikes are bloody frustrating at times. Particularly when you think you've cracked it and then it turns out to be something else! Good luck with it, let us know how it turns out!

[Guest]

That's OK, bikes are bloody frustrating at times. Particularly when you think you've cracked it and then it turns out to be something else! Good luck with it, let us know how it turns out!

 

Ok cheers I will do - all the stuff I need should arrive next week.

Just two more small questions.

Do I need to order oil for my air filter?

Is there special oil?

[Pete]

It depends what type of air filter you're getting. If you're using a foam air filter you will definately need to oil it because it's the oil that does the filtering, the foam doesn't do much. If it's a fabric air filter it will most likely already be oiled and you only need to oil them after cleaning (i.e. K&N are fabric filters). If it's a paper air filter then you don't need to oil it. My guess is it'll most probably be a paper one. Dont get it wet because that'll bond the paper fibres together and stop air flow (hence what happened to mine!).

If it is a foam filter then like I said you'll need to oil it. There is a 'special oil' called air filter oil. I don't know if Halfords do it but it's not too hard to get hold of. Here's some I just found on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/K%26N-Air-Filter- ... dZViewItem

You can also use 30W engine oil, but air filter oil would be best. You probably won't even need to think about oil, especially if it's a paper one. But if it's foam (which it probably isn't. I say that because you said your old one is slightly yellow, so I'm guessing it was white before, which is why I'm guessing at paper) then don't put it in until it's nicely oiled.

Foam air filter:

http://quartermidgetshirt.com/images/bi ... filter.jpg

Paper air filter (may have metal mesh around the outside):

http://www.expeditionexchange.com/genuine/DSC00060.jpg

Fabric filter:

http://www.shopresponse.com/k&n_drop-in_filter_ap.jpg

[Guest]

Again cheers, this is what I ordered:

http://www.adrenalin-pedstop.co.uk/p/AP ... -1577.aspx

But its out of stock there I got the same one on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0047133227

You think I will need oil for it? If so what one do you recommend (sorry I don't want to mess it up).

Also, will a lot of smoke from the exhaust also be because of the extra oil?