JesterPilgrim

. A lot of Dawkins' arguments concern the propensity of religions to make extraordinary claims for themselves that are inversely proportional to the strength of the evidence they can muster to support them, and apply equally to all religions.

That might have been an interesting argument, if Dawkins had been in the least bit interested in examining the actual evidence rather than simply interviewing whatever backwater crazies supplied support for his thesis.

Where on Earth did you get (he's not even respected among evolutionary biologists) from?

Mostly through interviews I've heard on scientific podcasts, but there was also a survey of scientists done a few years ago in which the majority of respondents claimed he stretched evidence beyond the limits most scientists would consider within acceptable parameters, and all to serve his anti-strawman rhetoric. I don't have those studies to hand so can't cite them. All my university papers are archived somewhere in a cupboard.

@JesterPilgrim

My comments in this thread were not meant to be insulting in anyway to your beliefs, but I was disappointed on your comments about Dawkins. I was merely asking whether you read his book and mentioning how he influenced me. I don't really like debating religion, (especially on an internet biking forum) so, as far as I'm concerned, if you have faith in a belief and that it helps you come to terms with life then great as far as I'm concerned.

I can fully understand how people in war torn and 3rd world countries with little education and living in poverty cling to religion for comfort. But for modern society, I'm slightly baffled.

My point about Dawkins is that the arguments he purports to make against Christianity is against a religion I don't recognise. It's a straw man. He's not even respected among evolutionary biologists. So your bafflement at my belief is mirrored by my bafflement at yours!

This is yet another thread that has gone so far

so many times that I had to go back to page 1 to see what it was

meant to be about!

Be careful people! It's getting a bit nasty!

The topic was drifting all over the place anyway. Just wanted to pitch in to a conversation that had been going on about Christianity, as I seemed to be the only one who doesn't just go with the flow with popular and ill informed opinions about it.

Just another tool to divide us.

Am I being divisive?

Cool. So long as you know that the Christianity Dawkins so loves to castigate only actually exists among a handful of American hillbillies. That handful has 6 fingers. He is completely and utterly (and wilfully) misinformed on just about every single aspect of orthodox doctrine.

Is he? Examples, please.

And in any case, we all know what "orthodox doctrine" has gifted us. Some of the worst and bloodiest conflicts ever to have disgraced the concept of "civilisation".

Just another tool to divide us.

I don't have a copy to hand, but basically - every page of the God Delusion and every reference he makes to what he thinks Christians believe.

And I'm not going to justify disgraces of "civilisation", but I like how folk conveniently forget the success of civilisation which orthodox doctrine has actually gifted us with.

I’ve experienced and witnessed the hypocrisy of professed Christian people, and too many for it to be a case of a few bad apples.

Take the adjective "Christian" out of that sentence, and it remains entirely true.

Not abuse, just trying to tell the truth. Unless you regard a statement such as "white is not black, it is white" as abusive.

Ah, abuse wrapped in "truth" claimed as absolute and inarguable. The best kind of abuse. Pretty much the kind that leads to precisely what you're accusing me of being victim to, but don't worry about it, carry on.

... There are none so blind as those.....

So... no answer? Just abuse? That's fine, I can deal with that. Just wondered if there was anything of any actual substance in your response. Nope. Next.

I was always a religious sceptic, but after discovering Dawkins and reading some of his books, he made it clear to me why I was. I'm now an ardent Atheist and happy to be one.

Cool. So long as you know that the Christianity Dawkins so loves to castigate only actually exists among a handful of American hillbillies. That handful has 6 fingers. He is completely and utterly (and wilfully) misinformed on just about every single aspect of orthodox doctrine.

@JesterPilgrim' have you read this?

Yes. Reading Dawkins on theology is like reading A.A.Milne on zoology.

Much of the Bible is God revealing what he's going to do. Much of it is explanation of what he's done. However, all of it is revelation of who he is and what he's like, and where we fit into the picture - those are the primary purposes of it.

Errrr.... .. "God" needs a 2000 year old text to reveal what "he's" going to do? Bit late in the day, eh?

You can't explain what "he's done", 'cos nobody did anything. It just happened. No pre-ordainment, no nothing. Else why bother trying to do anything - 'cos it won't make any difference?

"He" is like what those who would control you want "him" to be... otherwise why go to the bother?

"You" fit into the picture exactly where you need to fit to be able to be exploited.

FFS wake up.... It's not too late. You have got a brain - use it. There is a god..... it lives between your ears.

Oh wow, you're right. So persuasive. I'm being so controlled - how did you know? Since you have such a clear view of my life, perhaps you could tell me in what way I'm being controlled?

Sometimes he does...

 

How?

Much of the Bible is God revealing what he's going to do. Much of it is explanation of what he's done. However, all of it is revelation of who he is and what he's like, and where we fit into the picture - those are the primary purposes of it.

Do you always ask yourself what the point of a conversation is with someone you love?

 

Err... have you met my wife?

Ha! Well of course it's worth asking the question "What's the point of this conversation?" Other times, having a conversation is simply an indication that the relationship is alive, and needs no further justification.

By the way, this is a conversation that is far more fun over a beer.

If God either hasn't got a plan or has one that He is unwilling to change, then what purpose does prayer serve?

I said neither of those things.

Since God doesn't tell us in advance what His plans are His will can only be divined retrospectively, in which case what was the point of the conversation?

Sometimes he does... and sometimes the point of the conversation is to have a conversation. Do you always ask yourself what the point of a conversation is with someone you love?

Go on - I'll bite. What is prayer?

When a trio of musicians in a San Francisco jazz bar prayed for me to have good weather on my bike ride down Highway 1, were they not asking God to change whatever plans He had made for the weather over the next few days in favour of their 'better' plan?

OK, I'll answer your second question first. Your assumption is that [the musicians thought] God had plans for the weather which they wanted changed. The logical corollary from that is: whatever happens is what God wants to happen, unless a Christian asks for something different. That is not Christian theology.

The simple answer to your first question (about which many, many books have been written) is that prayer is conversation with God guided by God. It's not some kind of putting God's arm behind his back to force him to do what we want; it's a process whereby we discover what God himself wants.

Wait wait wait, I missed the religion bit of this thread!

Just had a read back through things and would like to thank everybody for their permission for me to be what most here appear to consider a deluded and possibly even dangerous individual. I'm a worship pastor in my church (my Dad and his hippy friends prefer to just call me a "priest"). So I'm happy to pray for you all, even if your discussion on prayer completely and utterly misunderstood what prayer actually is (hint: it's not asking for God's plan to change because I have a better one).

When I sat down to a fryup at Squires a couple of weeks back on my road trip, I was sat with a couple of random bikers I'd never met who asked me where I was going. I was going to a big event with the church movement I'm a part of. We had a very friendly chat and they decided to dub me "The Preacher". It's a nickname I'm quite comfortable with.

So where did you go on this epic excursion ?

From Fife to Durham via Edinburgh & Jedburgh. Next day to Stafford for a weekend conference (that was the hardest, less pleasant day). Then up near Keswick where I camped overnight before heading back up through the western lowlands.

Adjust position of the clutch lever so your elbow is bent.

If you have short arms, then fit pullbacks / risers or, swap bars.

800 miles - in winter - barking!

Thanks!

It's Springtime!!!

DON'T DO IT IN WINTER!!!

especially with just a month or so experience on the bike you used.

You're probably right in all you say, but the reality is that I had an amazing time! I took my training in the ice and hail, so figured I had a good head start on bad weather riding - but this was the first long trip and so I'm just reviewing what I can/can't or should/shouldn't do.

Elbow thing sounds like you were tense? Tension can end up in the elbow and/or shoulder areas.

Maybe. The wind on Friday was BRUTAL. I was holding on for dear life.

So I just got back from my first lengthy road trip. I have some observations, and a question at the end!

1. Some roads simply shouldn't be on a map. They're just tracks of wet mud between two fields.

2. The United Kingdom is beautiful.

3. Riding on motorways is awful.

4. Heated grips were an absolute Godsend. Earplugs too.

5. Next time, pack DAILY contact lenses. You never know where you might leave the bottle of fluid for the monthlys. Glasses get steamed up too easily.

6. With luggage strapped on the back of the seat, getting on and off is a bit of a merry dance and a hop.

7. Some bikers acknowledge you. Some don't.

8. Filtering is scary but so satisfying.

9. 50mph winds aren't fun but I've discovered I can stay rubber-side down in them.

10. After chatting about Jesus with some random bikers at Squires Cafe, my biker name is now apparently "The Preacher"

A QUESTION - my left arm really hurts, all around my elbow. I noticed it hurting on the second day while operating the clutch. Any idea what's going on there? Anything I could change? I noticed that the clutch is in a position where I actually have to straighten my arm to operate it - do you think it would help if I raised it a bit further towards me so that my elbow stays bent?

Apparently there was a load of dirt mixed with grease underneath the throttle shaft. Knowing that I could have dealt with it myself, but I felt myself getting into a tangle with the throttle cable. Anyhoo, the shop sorted it out for free. Nice folk.

Well that's great news but I wonder how the OP got on with his sticky throttle.

Taking it to the shop today.