Ducati ST4 or Honda Blackbird

[Pete]

So it's new bike hunting as from next week! I have about £2,000 to spend so will need to keep an eye out for bargains! Do I go for the feel, handling and V-twin throb of the Duke, or the all day comfort and supreme wowness of owning a Blackbird? Remember though that the Duke has expensive service costs and a reputation for unreliability but the 'bird won't be the most easy to work with around town...

To be honest I think it's flip a coin time!

[Stu]

the blackbird is dirt cheap for servicing costs and there is some bargains to be had too

personally even though i love ducati and love V twins i would go for the blackbird

[JoshRS]

Blackbird - for the shear ammount of epicness.

plus the engines are bomb proof, i read in RIDE magazine that a few are still going after 1million miles on the clock!

did i mention they're epic?

[Ash]

Blackbird me loooooves them

[Stu]

there is a good write up in octobers ride mag (thats this months as they are stupid and publish a month infront ) give loads of usefull info

[Pete]

Thanks folks! Keep the opinions coming! Strangely I never thought I'd own a 'bird for a good few years but the opportunity has come up and after riding a Duke ST4 I have to make a decision! I think it'll come down to what deals come up over the next month or so...this time of year I'm hoping there should be quite a few.

Cheers for the tip on Ride mag Stu, I'll have to pick up a copy.

[Bogof]

Ducati SP4, yum.

Blackbird is so wide it almost needs 2 more wheels.

[JoshRS]

Ducati SP4, yum.

Blackbird is so wide it almost needs 2 more wheels.

 

Wait, a bad comment about the 'Bird? BLASPHEMY

[Stu]

also in the ride mag theres a good test on the ST3 and triumph sprint st 1050

the ST3 is almost identical to the ST4 apart from the motor has a slightly bigger bore 996 as apposed to 992cc

[Pete]

I can't really afford either the new Sprint (though if I could then that'd win hands down!) or the ST3. I don't really like the newer shape of the ST3 either

Sure you don't mean it has a 992 engine? I know the ST4s has a 996 engine and the ST4 has a 916 engine (confusing name, should have made it a bit more different than just one letter!), both 4 valves whereas the ST3 is a 3 valve cylinder (2 inlet and 1 slightly bigger exhaust). Anyway, I can't afford it! It'll have to be an ST4! But it'd have to have a FSH ideally and have had the belts done recently because when I buy it I'm thinking I won't really be able to spend money doing it up at all so it has to be right straight away for me to trust it. Whereas the 'bird would have a bit more leeway as it's more trustworth.

Ooooooh decision decisions! I want something that'll let me buzz up and down the country in relative comfort, but also something that'll let me throw it round the twisties with ease and be as flickable as a bogey in double maths!

[Stu]

http://www.ducati.com/bikes/my2005/comp ... n&x=46&y=6

yeah it is the ST4s that has the 996 the ST4 isnt on there

anyway the st3 used prices start from £2790 could get a bargain and pick one up for 2500 if you could stretch that far

but then there extra on a decent service!!!

i would lean towards the blackbird still

[Pete]

I'd be interested on the opinions of anyone that's ridden a Blackbird around town/in slow moving traffic. I know the centre of gravity is very low but also what's it like with filtering, etc.?

[Stu]

why not go get a test ride on one

or fire hoody a pm he used to own one

[Pete]

Cuz I'd probably break it and then realise I don't want it!

[Guest]

I bought an '05 Blackbird in Feb this year as a 2nd bike, I deliberated for a while over a good few other bikes at the dealerships round here and am still more than happy with the Birdy I settled on It's a hell of a fine motorcycle. It's heavy yes but nothing you can't get used to, the weight feels very low so the bike is easily man handled around if needs be. All the rave reviews you can read out there on the web about the bike I found to be true! I just had it back from service on Sunday, 15,000 miles, including fitting new front and rear tyres Pirelli Angels cost £340. Tyres were I believe around £210 so a service cost of £130.

and just to confuse the issue........If I was buying as my singular main bike then I'd have got the ST4 I'm sure. Unlike Ducati's, Honda's I believe are inherently boring bikes but hey ho the Birdy almost breaks the mould in that it has character, speed and handling all in a smart reliable package

Both bikes will blow your socks off if you're trading up from a Suzuki, it's a win win situation whatever you choose

[Guest]

I'd be interested on the opinions of anyone that's ridden a Blackbird around town/in slow moving traffic. I know the centre of gravity is very low but also what's it like with filtering, etc.?

 

I found the slow speed steering to be very imprecise and not nice at all. I fitted the 6mm spacer mod to the rear suspension and it sharpened up slow speed cornering a fair bit but very slow speed steering is a little hit n miss

However since replacing the Metzeler tyres last Sunday with Pirelli Angels it feels a lot more precise at slow speed. Too soon to really say if it's sorted the 'problem' 100% but it certainly felt better on Sundays run (and there was lots of slow speed manouvering on the n Wales run lol).

[houdini]

Honda = boring?

Oh not that one again, cmon bud they just get on with the job in hand, christ how can anyone say a blade is boring; but they do.

Id go for the bird, the st's are if you like lol inherently bloody ugly bikes, unlike their lush sporty counterparts

Lol Im his wingman, I sat on a lot of bikes going round saying well if it were me..... and yup, the blackbird does everythin you ask of it and more, the ideal sports tourer in my humble opinion

[rennie]

has to be the blackbird!

i wouldn't even put the ducati on my list!

you'll be lucky to get either for £2k though!

[Pete]

Still some interesting responses to consider, thanks.

It's interesting what Jota said about going for the ST4 as my one and only bike, even after owning both a Duke and a 'Bird you'd still go for the Duke. But I do like the sound of those servicing costs (on the 'bird I could probably do it myself more easily than on the Duke...at first anyway. I'm sure the timing belts on the Duke can't be THAT hard...... ). I'm not liking the idea of the weight of the 'bird at lower speeds mind. I think I really need to decide if I want all day motorway comfort with the 'bird or OK comfort but great handling 'round the twisties on the Duke...hmmmmm! I have got a trip up to Alnwick in a couple of weeks, but I may take the winding roads back, let's see what bike I go for first!

I don't mind the look of the ST4, I think the more time you spend with it the better it looks...definately a grower. The front headlights aren't the most pretty but who cares? The fairing is better than my GSX600F at the moment, and it's a very comfy riding position. Also I'd get an open clutch cover and be constantly fascinated watching it spinnin' up!

I've found quite a few ST4's going for £2,000 or less also, I think it's just a case of playing the waiting game. There was one on ebay a month or so back, FSH, immaculate, only done 9,000 miles...but I didn't have the cash at the time and now it's gone !!

[MtotheJ]

My heart would go for the Ducati as theyre a bit different and more exciting looking, but i think my brain would make me gor for the Blackbird. I think personally id end up going for the Ducati, probably on my own here . Especially if youve seen them round in good nick for £2k, just go for it .

[TC1474]

Being on my third Blackbird, you can probably guess that I am somewhat biased, but personally, I have yet to find a bike that ticks all the boxes the way the BB does.

So far, I have covered around 300,000 miles with my three bikes, all purchased from new, and the first 2 were sold with mileage in excess of 150,000 miles on the clock.

Engine wise, they have all been bullet proof, and in fact actually get better as the engine loosens up. On a run I get around 220 miles between fill ups, and when I go overseas I tend to use the performance a bit but the consumption remains pretty constant.

The only thing I tend to do is replace the rear shock with an Ohlins unit. The Showa standard rear unit is OK when new, but it can/does fade with time and it can cause the bike to bottom out a bit when on a spirited ride, nothing dangerous, just a bit spongy. The Ohlins is multi adjustable and really firms up the back end.

The fairing works very well and the dashboard layout is simple to see and read at all speeds, the seat is comfortable, and the tank takes a Baglux perfectly (which means the tank is also protected) and I use a Baglux tail pack which is neat and carries a lot of luggage on the rear.

Mirrors are probably the best this side of a Pan or Beemer, and the engine is silky smooth across the rev range.

I use my bike for touring, commuting from time to time and training, and it suits all of these roles ideally. It is not really any wider than any other bike of this size or class, so once you are confident it is a breeze to filter.

It will sit in top gear at 30 quite happily, or you can click down a couple of cogs, and all I will say is hang on tight as it will/can rip your arms out of their sockets. Even top gear roll on in top is brisk and will shame some sportier bikes.

The gearbox can be a bit notchy, but this is usually caused by dealers using a semi synthetic oil from new. A bike which has been run on mineral oil for the first 3 or 4 thousand miles will have a much slicker box when it changes over to the semi synthetic. A clunky box is not a problem, but they can be avoided.

Many people find the bike awkward in respect of the reach to the bars. I am 6 feet 5, so this has never been a problem for me, but some bar risers can solve this problem if it is an issue and is a very simple fix.

It is the one bike where I can ride from the UK to southern Germany (when my physical condition allows ), arrive, have my tea and then go out for another ride I can't even do that on a Pan or Beemer.

For a large sports tourer, in the right hands it can be hustled through the twisties very effectively, and it is very rare for a super sports to lose me or leave me behind, even on the tighter twisties. Needs a bit more effort than a lightweight supersports, but far more satisfying

Servicing is straightforward once the fairing panels are off, and if you have a modicum of mechanical ability, it is a very simple DIY job.

I have friends who have Ducatis, both ST2's and 4's and they have had nothing but grief, although they love the V twin characteristics.

Early Carb models (96/97) had a flat spot around 4000 RPM which could be corrected with a Dyno Jet kit, but by 98/99 this had been sorted and the power curve was linear.

I have had both carbed and injected (current bike), and there is very little difference in performance or economy, but again the earlier injected bikes tended to run somewhat rich and you could end up with very sooty tail pipes.

Tyre wise, they wear pretty well. Bridgestone 020's or Avon Azzuro's work very well, and I get arouund 7000 out of the front and between 4 and 6000 out of the rear depending on what I am doing.

As for the CBS (combined braking) it feels no different to a normal braked bike, the only tell tell sign is thatrear pads do tend to wear quicker than conventional brake system for obvious reasons.

Would I have another? Well I am on my third, I would certainly have a fourth, but then I did warn you that I am biased

[Guest]

Haven't riiden either, but have come across 2 Blackbirds, both 2 up doing Hardknott and wrynose pass, and if they can manage that, as big as they are, it'd be my choice.. very technical road, lots or tight corners and slow speed work, the guys riding must have felt like theyd done a session in the gym afterwards... The Ducati is Dated, and your paying for the name.. i dont like the headlight, think its uglier than the GSXF600 Teapot Mk1....

helpful i know...

[Guest Mr Miller]

I'd go for the 'Bird too!

Brother in law has one and it's gorgeous! Smooth as an oiled porpoise and very comfy for your optional pillion!

Even less helpful than Frankie's opinions but at least it's a heart-felt one!

When are you going up to Alnwick? Gis a shout and you can call in and do some servicing on my bike!

[Pete]

Thanks again guys, particularly TC1474 I appreciate the detailed response. I think I'm going to dissapear for a few hours over the weekend to try the 'bird on for size at some dealers. Last time I was up at J&S Birmingham they had a couple in so they might let me have a sit on. I'm also a tall chap at 6'4'' so size isn't too much of a problem (well it would be if I was looking at an all out sport bike!). I'm surprised it yields that many miles from a single fill up, and the all day comfort sound marvellous after getting what seems like temporary arthritis in my knees, neck and bum (if you can get it there) from my current bike.

Mr M I'll be up Alnwick way visiting my RAF buddies from Friday 2nd until Sunday 4th October so I'll PM you closer to the time! If I do go for the 'bird then bringing a tool kit in tow won't be too much of a problem!!

I must say when I started this thread yesterday I expected some Ducati bashing but also thought more people would be of the opinion that a Blackbird would be far too big and clumsy for a mere 24 year old. So thanks for the constructive thoughts and opinions, you useful lot

[Guest]

This is mine taken in Glen Coe the other week, I pulled in this stopping place to take a picture or two. Two up and carryng that luggage I got back on the bike and pulled off back onto the main road thinking I was in 1st gear. The bike pulled away just fine although I figured the revs didn't sound the same after a little I clicked my way up the box to see what gear I was actually in........... gulp I'd set off in 4th gear Impressive stuff ms Birdy!

Bike actually leans over a little more with the 6mm spacer fitted.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a45/der888/DSC02355GlenCoe.jpg