The 3rd European Directive 2011 to 2013

[Guest]

I wonder if anyone can advise me on whether the current provisional licence entitlement will be withdrawn under this future european law. I have been obliged to downsize to a 125cc bike with "L" plates 'cos DVLA stole the motorcycle entitlement from my licence when I replaced it with the photo licence. I passed my motorcycle test in 1965. DVLA told me they don't make mistakes & advised me to take the test again. On principle I flatly refuse to do this & have turned the CBT into a hobby! Now I've been told that I won't be able to ride even a 125cc & that riding on the road will only be allowed with an instructor. Does anyone know if this is true ?

I've been advised by my son, who lives in Portugal, that it has recently amended its licencing so that bikes/scooters up to 125cc can be driven with a car driving permit & I believe this to be the case in Italy as well. This is to obviate traffic congestion.

I've followed several trails on the internet but an answer to this conundrum is eluding me. I would like to get 'chapter & verse' on this before my current (6 months old) bike becomes worthless. If necessary I'll trade it in for a Piaggio ML3 LT, the 400cc 3 wheel scooter that can be driven on a car licence.

Apparently a whole new 3 stage test system will be implemented to allow riders to graduate to more powerful bikes. This scheme we are advised has been designed for rider safety but since 93% of accidents involving motorcyclists are not the fault of motorcycle rider I can't see the point. It would be more efficacious to train the car drivers to look properly but needless to say there will be no changes to car licence regulations. Car driving tests will still be done locally whereas motorcyclists may have to travel up 220 miles (not on their own bike) on public transport to take a test or further tests.

It appears to me that politicians view us as an anomaly that needs to be put down because we don't fit into the neat little boxes anymore. But that is their fault & undoubtedly their draconian licencing regulations will seriously deter young bikers from taking up riding in favour of motor cars. What happened to plans to cut congestion & pollution ? As far as I'm concerned that is just political verbal diarrhoea as evidenced by Westminster Council's reasons for bike parking charges.

[rennie]

I have no idea! but, if it was me I would fight tooth and nail

to get the original test put back on!

letters to MP, radio stations, newspapers,

petitions to downing street etc etc!

whatever it took! I would not let it go!

by the way! please say hello in the newbies section

[Guest]

i'd happily retake the test to be honest.

But i damn sure wouldn't pay for it again!

[NearOn]

I would take it all the way, they know there has been a problem with other peoples licences loosing entitlement so isnt unusual. Would do whatever you can to get it back. Also would consider doing test again as refreshing things is never a bad thing.

[Bogof]

Sorry, I got bored about 25% of the way through your campaigning diatribe.

If you'd care to retype your questions succinctly, I'd be more than happy to try answering them. As it stands your questions seem to get lost in a whole load of misinformed scaremongering and I really can't be arsed to try to pick them out

Alternatively, you might like to follow this url http://www.dft.gov.uk/press/speechesstatements/statements/thriddirective which took me all of 15 seconds to find using Google, and which appears to set out in detail the implications on licensing as far as the UK is concerned.

[Guest]

These your boots??

http://standupforamerica.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/soapbox.jpg

Nice first couple of posts to introduce yourself with

[ricky_v]

I diddnt see anything in the latest version of the 3rd licence directive about not being able to ride 125's (i.e cat A1) without a test pass, i feel its yet another half arsed truth portayed by MCN.

the problem is that these directives are a compromise, for example, sweeden is very against motorbikes, whereas spain, etc tend to be more liberal, the UK is just about in the middle, not too strict, but not exactly praising the form of transport either, so all this 3 stage bollocks there bringing in is simply a compromise between all the member states.

full version os the 3rd licence directive can be found here:-

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/energy_transpor ... nce_en.pdf

[Bogof]

full version os the 3rd licence directive can be found here:-

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/energy_transpor ... nce_en.pdf

 

With respect, you may confuse by posting that link, since it takes you to the original version which is dated 27.3.06

The link I posted earlier in the thread takes you to a statement from Paul Clark MP, the Sec of State for Transport, on the publication of the consultation on the 3rd directive. The statement was issued on 11.11.09

An awful lot has changed in the last 3 years, and the original document is now of little use to anybody other than historians.

Agree totally on the MCN point though. They do seem to overuse the journalists maxim - Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story!

[chiz]

Going back to the losing entitlements thing, it happens all the time, I would laugh at the DVLA's incompetence if it weren't so serious!!

It's happened to a few of my work colleagues, they sent their licences off to get the address changed and it comes back missing entitlements, most recently was a case of the C (old class 2) entitlement being missing, this wouldn't be a huge problem if it wasn't for the fact that the owner of the licence was employed as a cat C LGV driver and had been for 12 years!! On contacting the DVLA they asked for proof that he had passed his test!! I would have thought they would have had proof shown to them 12 years ago when they first issued his newly acquired licence to him.

I would fight it all the way.

[ricky_v]

full version os the 3rd licence directive can be found here:-

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/energy_transpor ... nce_en.pdf

 

With respect, you may confuse by posting that link, since it takes you to the original version which is dated 27.3.06

The link I posted earlier in the thread takes you to a statement from Paul Clark MP, the Sec of State for Transport, on the publication of the consultation on the 3rd directive. The statement was issued on 11.11.09

An awful lot has changed in the last 3 years, and the original document is now of little use to anybody other than historians.

Agree totally on the MCN point though. They do seem to overuse the journalists maxim - Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story!

 

Indeed its the latest from Paul Clark, but its not from the horses mouth so to speak.

according to this:- http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safe ... nce_en.htm that version is the latest, there doesnt seem to be any amendments to the 2006 version, and that website does link to this:-

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 26:EN:HTML

so i can only assume there both the same, and therefore the 2006 version is the absolute latest, and final draft. Our MP's tries to play anything coming from the EU down to possibly hide EU intergration from the public, so im sure youll understand that i have a deep sceptical view of our MP's. And i really do need to read the "raw version", instead of a "filtered" version

On the MCN point, i learnt after i went mad infront of 20+ people about these cameras there putting up on some roads of Derbyshire, which store your numberplate, avg. speed over a distance, time, date, and send you road safety related junk mail to your home address (by paying £2.50 to the DVLA ltd) that MCN had reported on, and we never saw any

[ricky_v]

Going back to the losing entitlements thing, it happens all the time, I would laugh at the DVLA's incompetence if it weren't so serious!!

It's happened to a few of my work colleagues, they sent their licences off to get the address changed and it comes back missing entitlements, most recently was a case of the C (old class 2) entitlement being missing, this wouldn't be a huge problem if it wasn't for the fact that the owner of the licence was employed as a cat C LGV driver and had been for 12 years!! On contacting the DVLA they asked for proof that he had passed his test!! I would have thought they would have had proof shown to them 12 years ago when they first issued his newly acquired licence to him.

I would fight it all the way.

 

to prevent thurther cases the best thing would be to "loose" your licence, pay the £20, so you have 2 licences, use 1 for updating, etc, and another one to keep so if in the event, you can just show the arrogent pen pushers.

i would highly doubt that they would deny that their own licence is "resonable proof"

[Guest]

Well Bogof the "misinformed scaremongering" I posted, is attributable to information gleaned at the last CBT I attended on Sunday 8th November by the CBT centre's senior instructor. I judged him to be a man quietly confident in the realm of his biking knowledge. I am not on a personal campaign and I would contest your description of my submission as a "diatribe." Through empirical experience I am certain that a lone campaign achieves nothing when the might of a politico/administrative bureaucracy is brought to bear on the individual. You will discover this for yourself in the fullness of time. For the reason stated above I do not propose a campaign against the DVLA on the licence issue since they would never admit their guilt; it would open the floodgates of appeals and they would never countenance this outcome. The ONLY way this incompetence could be remedied would be through a legal class action brought before the court and I don't see that happening soon.

It appears to me, Bogof, that you expect and do everything in haste but have you ever stopped and asked what you've done with the time saved. Think about it and perhaps this might temper lack of courtesy to your fellow man.

In conclusion if you "can't be arsed" then I for one should be grateful not to receive your rude, curt, patronising replies. Remember the written word can't smile.

[Guest]

A thankyou to everyone else who pointed me in the direction of information routes I'll use to answer my questions.

A goodnight to all.

Phil Randome

[Bogof]

A thankyou to everyone else who pointed me in the direction of information routes I'll use to answer my questions.

A goodnight to all.

Phil Randome

 

Definition

diatribe noun

/ˈdaɪ.ə.traɪb/ n [C] formal

an angry speech or piece of writing which severely criticizes something or someone

He launched into a long diatribe against the government's policies.

 

Spot on with that then, and it's nice to know that the link I provided was useful to you. Goodbye.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Bogof

[Juniper]

These your boots??

http://standupforamerica.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/soapbox.jpg

Nice first couple of posts to introduce yourself with

 

Don't think they can be, the box they are on isn't big enough

[NearOn]

Think there are better ways of going about telling someone dont like their post, seems bit harsh, no one makes anyone read posts. Obviously went on a bit but supposed to be a friendly site isnt it?

[rennie]

most of us are friendly! even bogof sometimes!

[techno]

Think there are better ways of going about telling someone dont like their post, seems bit harsh, no one makes anyone read posts. Obviously went on a bit but supposed to be a friendly site isnt it?

 

Maybe you could have made your point via the report button, however i really dont see what your point is tbh having read the whole thread i cant see that the original poster has been dealt with harshly people have given there opinion. This is a friendly site and we try to keep it that way as we have seen site's where members come under constant attacks!

[Guest]

Through empirical experience I am certain that a lone campaign achieves nothing when the might of a politico/administrative bureaucracy is brought to bear on the individual. You will discover this for yourself in the fullness of time. For the reason stated above I do not propose a campaign against the DVLA on the licence issue since they would never admit their guilt; it would open the floodgates of appeals and they would never countenance this outcome. The ONLY way this incompetence could be remedied would be through a legal class action brought before the court and I don't see that happening soon.

.

 

I would say you are spot on with your analysis, and welcome to the forum

[Ingah]

One question for anyone that is able to understand the 3rd directive well enough to answer

How would the current version of this directive affect a 21 year old car license holder / no motorcycle license person (i.e. the majority of people who haven't yet had any experience with bikes) who wanted to get a bike license and ride bikes? What would they have to do and how many/what hoops would they have to jump through?

[apatia77]

I think that you should retake the test as you already have the bike, if you are happy with your little bike then do the restricted license A2 on your own bike, it'll only cost you the test fees which is £15 + £75, definitely cheaper than CBT every year. You have years of experience therefore passing shouldn't be a problem.

[Martyc]

I've kept my pass certificate (in a frame...) so should it happen to me I'll be ok

[polecat]

I've kept my pass certificate (in a frame...) so should it happen to me I'll be ok

I keep mine in the bank