counter-steering (my motorbike - not my counter)

[illvibetip]

so I was out riding the twisting mountain roads yesterday and thinking about an 'emergency countersteering' video I had watched the other day.

I cant beileve I never realised that I was 'countersteering' all this time I was riding! I always thought I was turning using my knees/tank/ass or whatever - certainly not my handlebars...! you would assume this was common sense but since I never formally learned how to ride, I always did everything on instinct.

anyway, this got me thinking about what I was doing and I almost felt as if I was beginning to 'overcomplicate' things on the corners (ie -which way to push/how much/thinking too much) and what should I do in an emergency.

But in the past I may have pushed the wrong way (and probably did) so, I could definatley see the advantages of being aware of what I was doing.

So - question (at last...): is countersteering considered an 'advanced riding technique'? Regrdless, do people go out and practice this (when cornering etc.) in case of emergency or whatever? (please bear in mind i never took my test so i have little idea about riding theory).

cheers

[techno]

No never go out to practice counter steering as its the only way round to get round a corner!

You say you probably pushed the wrong way, was that in how you pushed, cos surely if you pushed the wrong way you'd have gone the wrong way

[illvibetip]

well, yes, I did.

But I will have corrected it out of instinct.

I know its the only way to get round a corner but Im wanting to know if its better just to keep going with what 'feels right' or get it drummed into my head that 'oh theres a car coming toward me - push left' rather than just doing it instinctively. Ive been riding for 2 years and never had an accident - even on really shitty roads.

is it just overcomplicating things? (if it isnt broken etc.)

[caretaker]

so I was out riding the twisting mountain roads yesterday and thinking about an 'emergency countersteering' video I had watched the other day.

I cant beileve I never realised that I was 'countersteering' all this time I was riding! I always thought I was turning using my knees/tank/ass or whatever - certainly not my handlebars...! you would assume this was common sense but since I never formally learned how to ride, I always did everything on instinct.

anyway, this got me thinking about what I was doing and I almost felt as if I was beginning to 'overcomplicate' things on the corners (ie -which way to push/how much/thinking too much) and what should I do in an emergency.

But in the past I may have pushed the wrong way (and probably did) so, I could definatley see the advantages of being aware of what I was doing.

So - question (at last...): is countersteering considered an 'advanced riding technique'? Regrdless, do people go out and practice this (when cornering etc.) in case of emergency or whatever? (please bear in mind i never took my test so i have little idea about riding theory).

cheers

 

The avoidance manouvre in the MOD 1 requires the use of counter steering. I think for beginners to understand counter steering is vital so that they do not resort to their natural push bike riding instincts when an emergency swerve is required. For instance it is possible that many beginners if they had time to think about it and wanted to swerve sharp left would just pull on the left handlebar and put the weight on the wrong side of the front tyre for turning!

When obviously they should be looking to push on the left and have the bike put its weight on the left side and smaller diameter part of the tyre.

(I think it can/should be practiced on every corner and is anyway either knowingly or not) Its great fun and gradually increasing the throttle in syncro with the push/turn to maintain the required angle of lean gives so much more positive feel to the cornering. ....The real point is what would you do in an emergency if you had to do it purely by instinct?....and would it be correct? Once you are aware of countersteering- probably yes but if not-

your "knees tank ass or whatever" as you put it wouldnt be as effective and an instictive panic left pull on the handle bar to swerve left rather than the required left push would be the wrong thing to do and send you the opposite way to which you wanted to go)

I was told only to use coutersteering at 15mph and above and thats true also.

I did once mistakenly try to use it during a slow tight u turn practice to try and tighten the turn and its bad news - the bike wanted to drop like a stone.....so now wouldnt use it at under 15mph whatsoever.

How much to push? ie the pressure required does depend on your speed and more presure is required at a greater speeds ..in truth you are only moving the handlebars a 1/2 inch though and can be done at 50mph with a single finger

[illvibetip]

perfect, thanks

[Aaron]

Just to get started practise pushing on the handlebars to dodge manhole covers or road markings. Concentrate on not moving your body (so even if you fail, which you wont, you wont crash. You'll just go over the manhole cover) and just pust forwards on whichever side you want to go.

After about 5 minutes you'll realise how simple and easy and effective it is.

REMINDER: DO NOT MOVE YOUR BODY AT ALL (when practising dodging manholes). Justpush forward on whichever side of the bars.

Then when you use it properly on bends you can move your body too if you like. But isolate it for practise so that you can understand it properly.

[caretaker]

perfect, thanks

 

Maybe... be interesting to see if others more experienced than me agree.

I do know it is fun if you are going through a series of twisties to use countersteering for tightening your turn a little more than required. Making that slightly tighter turn will cause more reduction in speed so then apply the throttle gradually to maintain the speed that would be lost, so that you come out of the corner with the bike straightening up and again ready for the next turn..... It just makes the whole cornering ' feel ' so much more controlled and positive. No need to try to straighten out 'all the bends' with road position alone anymore..........you can keep dead to the middle of the lane but at speed.. (should you want to)

practicing balancing 'the countersteering into the corner' and syncronising and applying the right amount of gradually increased throttle out of the corner will tell you whats right by how it feels.

The feedback from the bike is so positive (If you did push too hard and the bike lean too much, turn too tight....it would then just be a case of countering it as you lean with more throttle)

To me, as I am a learner, countersteering was an absolute revelation when i tried it and felt it in action. It took me a little while to actually trust what I had been told, enough to actually do it as it appeared to go against my idea of steering.

" Best way i can describe the 'positive feel' it gives to cornering is similar to how it feels when you do a slow tight turn around a corner which is then going steeply up hill and then you have to quickly open the throttle and accelerate to compensate for the hill. Once you apply that throttle it always feels more stable and positive." I would say thats how correct countersteering feels but at speed and without the hill.

If you did happen to be sure you are on an empty straight road or area and really sure its empty go at 40mph along the middle maintain the speed, relax both arms keep complete body straight up and not leaning any way and then press with just a finger on the left handle bar and then you will see the bike turn left so then press the same with the right finger on the right handle bar back to where you where- get used to it then do it with for for longer and longer! until you are doing a continous 'S' ie warming your tyres....then do the same and just apply a little gradual syncro throttle between each push to maintain original speed ...Its an absolute Joy!

Obviously me being a learner I know I may be overstating the obvious to many so I apologise for that but I have explained it for the benefit of those who like me had never concsciously tried it. I do remember whilst i was learning to ride agonising for a time, as to if i can trust the theory or not as it takes a little belief to intentionally try it for the first time and especially more so later if you are facing oncoming traffic a little wide and need to do it..You need to be confident in your mind long before then that it works!

Enjoy and let me know how you get on

PS- Just remembered another usefull application of counter steering

If you are going along straight in a cross wind use it to counter a continous side wind or the gusts

ie strong wind from the left push a little more on the left to counter lean the bike into the wind whilst still going straight