What would be the most effective means of reducing speeding?

[Mawsley]

Riding to Ashby Folville slowed me down because I couldn't believe how everyone else on the road appeared to be a bigger dipswitch than me.

[Fozzie]

Was he in a helicopter?

It's a bit idealistic again though. Your idea of "safe" is quite likely to be different to his idea of "safe". So how do you reconcile the difference in opinion? How do you legislate for an ever changing speed limit that relies on an individual's opinion?

You can't, which is why we have speed limits determined by traffic engineers that are applied universally. That way we all know where we are, and there's no room for confusion to catch us out.

 

He was on one of those banked slip ways they use very well hidden by trees on my left side, saw him and rolled off but like I said he knew I was speeding.

I could argue that modern vehicles can stop quicker, now thinking time has remained the same so we need to work out the average in which a vehicle can stop from the thinking time. An obvious problem with that is some people have cars from 20 years ago on the road, which don't have ABS and cant brake as well.

But I dont want upped speed limits, I would use the system suggested, dont change the limits but allow an officer to use his discretion. We all speed and its very easy (especially for them) to determine if it was dangerous or not. If not dangerous but still a bit excessive (let them decide this) then a fine. If it was at a speed determined to be reckless then points will apply.

[Guest]

"Highest speed at which it is ever safe" would lead to 5mph on all urban roads as it's the highest you would want to travek is a party of school kids were walking along the road, or the dustbin lorry was ahead of you

Quite the opposite. The highest speed at which it is ever safe would be significantly faster than 30mph - and it might make sense for travelling in excess of that speed to result in an automatic penalty.

The norm, however, would be to actually have to look around and make a judgment based on the actual conditions at the time, which might be 5mph or it might be 50mph. Travelling at an inappropriate speed for the conditions at the time would constitute dangerous driving. Travelling at a speed which was not inappropriate given the conditions would not be arbitrarily made an offence.

[Rik398]

My Idea

get caught speeding, you get your bike taken away from you. for example 40 in a 30, your bike is in police storage for a couple of weeks.

People will get sick of having to take the bus.

You want to ride or drive, then you have the responsability that goes with it. Eventually people will realise that they are actually quite blessed to be able to afford and be trusted with their own personal transport, and what better punishment that your pride and joy being taken away for a short period of time to allow you to remind yourself of why you got it in the first place and the fact that if you want to get off the bus and continue the joy of riding, you do it properly.

Bit like having your bike stuck in the garage for 2 weeks. annoying. same result if you speed.

[Mawsley]

My Idea

get caught speeding, you get your bike taken away from you. for example 40 in a 30, your bike is in police storage for a couple of weeks.

People will get sick of having to take the bus.

 

I live in a village with next to no bus service...and have another bike and two cars. I don't see this solution working with me.

[Grumpy Old Git]

My Idea

get caught speeding, you get your bike taken away from you. for example 40 in a 30, your bike is in police storage for a couple of weeks.

People will get sick of having to take the bus.

 

I live in a village with next to no bus service...and have another bike and two cars. I don't see this solution working with me.

 

Once you have had all four 'confiscated' you would agree!

[techno]

My Idea

get caught speeding, you get your bike taken away from you. for example 40 in a 30, your bike is in police storage for a couple of weeks.

People will get sick of having to take the bus.

You want to ride or drive, then you have the responsability that goes with it. Eventually people will realise that they are actually quite blessed to be able to afford and be trusted with their own personal transport, and what better punishment that your pride and joy being taken away for a short period of time to allow you to remind yourself of why you got it in the first place and the fact that if you want to get off the bus and continue the joy of riding, you do it properly.

Bit like having your bike stuck in the garage for 2 weeks. annoying. same result if you speed.

 

lol and where would this massive storage area be?

I am curious what it is you ride?

[Mawsley]

My Idea

get caught speeding, you get your bike taken away from you. for example 40 in a 30, your bike is in police storage for a couple of weeks.

People will get sick of having to take the bus.

 

I live in a village with next to no bus service...and have another bike and two cars. I don't see this solution working with me.

 

Once you have had all four 'confiscated' you would agree!

 

If you can get my 4-up Mini Sprite to break any speed limit whatsoever I'd be awfully grateful

[Grumpy Old Git]

There are a few 5mph speed zones that even your mog would be able to exceed (downhill with the wind)!

[Rik398]

Oh... I thought we were talking hypothetically. And I ride a daytona 600.

If were talking about how the suggested 'new systems' will work on a theoretical basis then we have to ask whether any system will ever work. The current one obviously does not. And I doubt any system will ever be.

From what I can see, obediance of a law works on reinforcment and motication. The reinforcment can be positive or negative, for example you can either be punished for exceeding a speed limit, or you can be rewarded for not exceeding the speed limit. For example, if you paid every motorist a lump sum of say £250 if they can get through a year without speeding then it may work. But then comes the second vareiable, motivation. Motivation can be either intrinsic or extrinsic. Intrinsic is doing something for the sake of doing it alone, you do something you enjoy becuase you like it, like riding a motorcycle. Extrinsic is where you do something as an external reward. For example (most) people work becuase of the external reward of money, rather than because they love it. But then we see the problem, by paying people money to not speed, we have a system which works on extrinsic motivation. Without the presence of intrinsic motivation, the system will not work as well. You need to change peoples attitudes so that they want to keep to the speed limit becuase they enjoy it, not because of any external reward or punishment. If that ever happens, you will have a system that is sucsesful.

[techno]

I really dont think theres anything wrong with the system as it is tbh the roads are not that dangerous, its not like we break the limits already imposed and instantly have an accident!

Unfortunatly the thing with the modern world is some people believe zero accidents is actually achievable, they are simply living in cloud cookoo land!

[Guinnless]

I could argue that modern vehicles can stop quicker, now thinking time has remained the same so we need to work out the average in which a vehicle can stop from the thinking time. An obvious problem with that is some people have cars from 20 years ago on the road, which don't have ABS and cant brake as well.

Oi! My 22 year old car has ABS, the 34 year old doesn't though

 

But I dont want upped speed limits, I would use the system suggested, dont change the limits but allow an officer to use his discretion. We all speed and its very easy (especially for them) to determine if it was dangerous or not. If not dangerous but still a bit excessive (let them decide this) then a fine. If it was at a speed determined to be reckless then points will apply.

More or less agree. The pointless "it's 50 for reason" limits just mean I don't go that way any more. On the other hand I've been through areas with a 50 limit

that should be a 40 e.g. Helmswell, North Lincolnshire - it's A road with a large housing estate and a busy access road adjoining, there's a camera there but I usually do 40 ish as it feels more appropriate(safer?) and you're soon back into the NSL anyway.

[Ryder2889]

One way would be to fit a black box to every car / bike that keeps track of speed / breaking etc... sort of like black boxes in an plane but not as detailed.

These boxes would be fitted and maintained as part of the yearly MOT process. You could then use these boxes with your insurance company (if you wanted to) as a way of reducing your insurance premiums, but that part should be optional.

Now... the big kicker: If your involved in a car accident or bike accident and your black box data (only accessed by professionals) indicates that your excess speed caused the accident then the NHS will bill you for all your treatment, the police and other services will fine you for clean up costs etc...

That would work with me.

A cheaper way would be to increase the fines for speeding. £100 fine for every 5mph over the speed limit you are caught travelling, plus 1 point on your license for every 5mph over the speed limit.

Simple. Hit them where it hurts.

[Throttled]

You need to take in account that speed rarely causes an accident, instead it determines how severe the accident is.

[techno]

One way would be to fit a black box to every car / bike that keeps track of speed / breaking etc... sort of like black boxes in an plane but not as detailed.

These boxes would be fitted and maintained as part of the yearly MOT process. You could then use these boxes with your insurance company (if you wanted to) as a way of reducing your insurance premiums, but that part should be optional.

Now... the big kicker: If your involved in a car accident or bike accident and your black box data (only accessed by professionals) indicates that your excess speed caused the accident then the NHS will bill you for all your treatment, the police and other services will fine you for clean up costs etc...

That would work with me.

A cheaper way would be to increase the fines for speeding. £100 fine for every 5mph over the speed limit you are caught travelling, plus 1 point on your license for every 5mph over the speed limit.

Simple. Hit them where it hurts.

 

Lol am so glad this is theoretical thats the opposite end of the argument to get rid of speed limits all together simple no limits no speeding now that works for me!!

[Guest Spire]

[Ingah]

One way would be to fit a black box to every car / bike that keeps track of speed / breaking etc... sort of like black boxes in an plane but not as detailed.

These boxes would be fitted and maintained as part of the yearly MOT process. You could then use these boxes with your insurance company (if you wanted to) as a way of reducing your insurance premiums, but that part should be optional.

Now... the big kicker: If your involved in a car accident or bike accident and your black box data (only accessed by professionals) indicates that your excess speed caused the accident then the NHS will bill you for all your treatment, the police and other services will fine you for clean up costs etc...

That would work with me.

A cheaper way would be to increase the fines for speeding. £100 fine for every 5mph over the speed limit you are caught travelling, plus 1 point on your license for every 5mph over the speed limit.

Simple. Hit them where it hurts.

 

Lol am so glad this is theoretical thats the opposite end of the argument to get rid of speed limits all together simple no limits no speeding now that works for me!!

Coupled with a crackdown on dangerous driving, i might be inclined to agree.

[Throttled]

It is very difficult for the police to crackdown on dangerous driving as people behave when they are about. Such a crackdown would need the public to come forward with their experiences, of which on this forum we know there are many, sufficient witnesses to charge and people who are prepared to go to court over it. And suddenly the demand for a crackdown melts away.

That is why the police concentrate on speeding, as you can catch them and no matter how bad the driving is, at lower speeds the consequences are less severe. The police concentrate on reducing the severity of accidents as it is their best tactic.

[Bogof]

It is very difficult for the police to crackdown on dangerous driving as people behave when they are about. Such a crackdown would need the public to come forward with their experiences, of which on this forum we know there are many, sufficient witnesses to charge and people who are prepared to go to court over it. And suddenly the demand for a crackdown melts away.

That is why the police concentrate on speeding, as you can catch them and no matter how bad the driving is, at lower speeds the consequences are less severe. The police concentrate on reducing the severity of accidents as it is their best tactic.

 

So basically it's a cop-out?

Sorry, had to really

In terms of accident reduction, the Police Service really do seem to have off-loaded their responsibility quite nicely. The Fire and Rescue Service is now charged with responsibility for accident reduction, hence the Fire bikes at shows etc. Couple that with the Safety Camera Partnerships and the Police are all but off the hook as far as accident prevention/reduction is concerned.

[Rosie]

Anyone that speeds surely has to vote none of the above, which is what I voted.

If the threats of been banned dont stop ya doing it nowt will!

As andyc says would be better if they actually set speed limits properly instead of keeping them low!

And bex please, speed is not dangerous, inappropriate speed is

 

was just reading through this thread for the first time - got to this post and have stopped as I totally agree with it.

Up to 40/50 mph I piss off other road users by staying at the speed limit.

NSL as the road and conditions dictate at that time. If it is dry and empty I will make progress. If it is wet and busy I will make much steadier progress.

I ride quickly but defensively. I will slow down if I am unsure and I am not (too) bothered if anyone overtakes me

I am also very aware that I have a clean licence and want to hold onto it in that condition. I would be devastated if I lost it.

As always - time and place for everything, observation, observation, observation !!!.

[toon83]

they need to re-calculate the speed limits as the current ones were set 40 years ago and modern vehicles have progressed no-end since then, the current limits are all way to LOW and should be at least 10MPH higher.

more speed signs would stop me on main roads

only a speed restrictor would stop me on yorkshire back roads

[Throttled]

It is very difficult for the police to crackdown on dangerous driving as people behave when they are about. Such a crackdown would need the public to come forward with their experiences, of which on this forum we know there are many, sufficient witnesses to charge and people who are prepared to go to court over it. And suddenly the demand for a crackdown melts away.

That is why the police concentrate on speeding, as you can catch them and no matter how bad the driving is, at lower speeds the consequences are less severe. The police concentrate on reducing the severity of accidents as it is their best tactic.

 

So basically it's a cop-out?

Sorry, had to really

In terms of accident reduction, the Police Service really do seem to have off-loaded their responsibility quite nicely. The Fire and Rescue Service is now charged with responsibility for accident reduction, hence the Fire bikes at shows etc. Couple that with the Safety Camera Partnerships and the Police are all but off the hook as far as accident prevention/reduction is concerned.

 

That happens because of the lack of reports with sufficient witnesses for dangerous driving. Fire regulations making it harder to set things on fire such as furniture have been so successful that Fire and Rescue needed another role. I would rather police time is not spent administering speed cameras.

[djiceman]

Only thing that stops me going over 6mph over the limit is either a built up area, school or average speed cameras.

[AdeyT]

To reduce speeding you would have to monitor every vehicle’s speed at all times and have a punishment for speeding that would deter all drivers/riders from doing so, this will never happen. Fitting of gps/black boxes is a waste of time, most things can be hacked and there are lots of drivers/riders who don't even bother with insurance/tax or a licence.

A better question would be how could we reduce the amount of reckless drivers/riders on the road, as some one has already mentioned inappropriate speed is the problem.

What annoys me is when I see a car going at least 50 in a built up area right outside a school at 3pm on the wrong side of the road around the other side of the islands to jump traffic, not a copper for miles but then you get some copper sat with the camera out the back of a van for hours at the end of a wide open long straight road with a ridiculously low speed limit.