Opinions & Advice Wanted..

[Guest]

Hi,

I'm new here, I'm 21, a student in Nottingham and recently got a part time job. I get the bus to and from work and lectures ~5x a week. A few of my good friends ride bikes and I've always enjoyed getting on the back and held an interest. Over the last month or so I've become quite obsessed with saving up and getting my license done and getting myself a nice ride.

Now i already hold a license to drive a car and have done for 2 years, so i have some experience there but none on bikes. I have fallen in love with the Ninja 250 for its great reviews and, as I heard and feel like it would be an appropriate size for myself as a new rider (not too much but not too small).

Getting to the point...

I have afew conflicting ideas in my head, many people advise doing the CBT and getting a 125cc first as a cheap practice before moving on, I don't want to be someone who naively rushes in and screws up but am not attracted to that idea as not only do I much prefer the styling of the Ninja250 but require something with enough power to take me down the motorway to my home in London.

Will i be competent enough to complete the DAS first time? I passed driving first time with few minors and am fairly confident but of course I have no experience..?

Is it too expensive a bike for a first time rider at ~£2.500? It will take some hard saving over the next few months to achieve, and do you think its too much too spend on personal transportation in tests, gear, bike etc as a student?.

Thanks for your time guys,

Arin

[Bonniebird]

Hi Arin and welcome to the forum

I suspect you already know that there is no 'right' answer to this.

1. Finance - you need to allow for insurance, gear and training as well as the bike. I'm not sure how much a DAS course would cost but I suspect £600-700 - others would have a better idea. The cost for getting on the road on a 125cc would be Bike + insurance + CBTwhich is about £100 so it is a cheap option which would get you mobile. You could then have lessons on your own bike or take Mod 1 and Mod 2 in your own time which would be cheaper. If you took it on a 125cc you would have to ride a bike under 33bph for 2 years but that would would include the 250cc Ninja or a restricted bigger bike

2. The sort of riding you would be doing - If most of your riding is around town, a 125cc would be adequate for this and a light and easy to handle bike so an advantage in traffic. The 250cc is also light and agile and has the advantage that it would be OK for the occasional trip to London whereas that would be a bit much on a 125. DAS would allow you to get an larger unrestricted bike - more comfortable on longer journeys but a bit wasted around town - good if you are going to use it for fun as well.

3. Consider a second hand bike - most people drop their bike at least once when starting out.

4. What are your friends riding? - not the most important cosideration but if you think you may be riding as a group then you want something that can keep up.

Best of luck - I'm sure you'll get plenty of replies

[Guest]

Thanks Bonnie,

It is definitely 2nd hand I'm looking at, and I have seen the DAS for ~£500.

My friends ride A 1100, 500 and 600 I think (not sure on models) so would be nice to keep up yeah.

And I would like to get to London on the weekends with it occasionaly which is why i think the 250 would be better.

I'm really just checking that the experienced people here don't think i'm trying to do too much too quick.

They say ''you get what you pay for'' how much would it be recommended I spend on helmet and all gear? I was estimating up to and around £500? though I know you can get pricier stuff, I have limitations and possibly not the requirements for it.

[mealexme]

Welcome Smousers, Bonnirbird raises a lot of good points, but I would add:

Pros for 33bhp

much better on the motorway, I would not like to take a 125 on the motorway!

can keep up with your mates

look better

faster

(I think I am right in thinking) Brighter lights so better for the early nights

Pros for getting 125cc

it is winter and the roads are getting wetter and slippier so...

lighter and easier to control

less on insurance

better fuel economy

less power so you are less likely to spin your wheel in the wet

easier to manouver when you see wet leaves at the last moment and have to manouver around them

lighter for if you crash/drop it (most people do in the first few years, especially in the winter) so easier to pick up

I would be tempted to do your CBT and get a 125 for over the winter, and maybe think about doing DAS in the summer and move onto a bigger bike when you have more experience

Also, buy a reflective jacket and be prepared for everyone to pull out on you, especially on roundabouts as most bikes seem to be invisible to cars

[Guest]

Cheers, I won't have the money for it yet so I am looking ast march onwards anyway.

Also i.don't think I want to go through the hassle of buying and insuring two different bikes in a short space of time. But maybe I'm just being impatient.

[davefly76]

Just to add my two pence in.. You won't be allowed to ride on a motorway on a 125 with L plates (which you will have to have if you only do your CBT) its illegal.

[Guest]

So does anyone think I would find the DAS hard to pass or that a Ninja 250 would be too expensive or too much in any way as a first bike?

[davefly76]

So does anyone think I would find the DAS hard to pass nope or that a Ninja 250 would be too expensive or too much in any way as a first bike?how much have you got to spend on a bike? consider insurance cost and the likelyhood that you will drop it at some point.

 

[OhJay]

We're all doing a good job proving Bonnie's statement that there isn't a right answer, aren't we?

If you can afford it then there is absolutely no reason not to go do your test and get a Ninja. If you'd be happy on a 250 then I'd be inclined to ask about doing an intensive week and doing your test on the 125 at the end of the week rather than going DAS specifically, presumably it'd be a lot cheaper to hire the 125 for the week from the school than it would a 500 (I'm doing hourly lessons with my school once a week and there's £10 difference between hiring the 125 and their 500).

This would restrict you to 33bhp for two years but the Ninja makes about that anyway (I have a funny feeling it's slightly higher so make sure you check!) and after two years you're free to get what you like.

Do a search for "get on" and get in touch with them, they'll put you in touch with a school local to you who do free have-a-go sessions so you can see how you feel on a bike and then you're instantly in touch with a school and an instructor and can ask as many questions as you like while you're there.

[Rebel Rach]

So does anyone think I would find the DAS hard to pass?

 

This is a difficult question to answer as some people will have more natural ability than others, and the only person who will truly know where you sit on this spectrum is you. If your not sure about this then look at things like your fitness level, being fitter or being involved in sports provides you with a better awareness of how your body works even the smallest of movements on a bike can have some suprising effects on your balance. Also consider how quickly you get to grips with new physical tasks. When doing DAS with no experience on a bike you need to be confident (but not cocky, this will very quickly bite you in the ass) with the controls of the bike very quickly in order to reach test standard. As with driving just because you pass the test doesn't mean your an expert there is so much more to be learnt after you pass.

I took this route and passed both the mod 1 and mod 2 on day four. This is not always possible due to the availibilty of test slots. Consider doing your CBT before the start of the DAS course which effectively gives you an extra day of training. I went down this route entirely by accident and think it helped a great deal.

[Remy]

If I were you I'd do the CBT first and see how you feel about it all! You may feel more than ready to do the DAS or perhaps want to have some more practise beforehand. Bear in mind that riding a bike is not the same as driving a car; the road awareness is up to a point but on a bike you have to be so much MORE aware.

Once you've ridden you may feel that a 250 won't be enough for you. I passed on a 125, got myself loads of practise before the test and that was what suited me best. I got used to the 125 but once I went out on my 650 there was no going back! Even though it's restricted there is no comparison

[Guest]

I'm taking the CBT out the picture I think, staying on a 125 would'nt accomplish what I want and would cause extra hassle for someone new to buying.

So when I have the money I will be booking the DAS, the reason I chose the Ninja 250 was because I thought it would be about the right amount of power for a new rider and ticked the other boxes as far as build quality, mpg and styling are concerned.

I am concerned that it may become outdated however as the new bike restrictions come in 2013. And it isn't a cheap first bike at £2,500.

So should I go and get on a 600?

also thanks for the advice Ohjay i will check out the 'Get On' website.

[Stu]

seen as though you are 21 and can do DAS and ride any bike i would get a second hand 600 ish cc of some sort

you will get bored of the 250 very quick and its a lot of money for a first bike

you can pick up a decent 600 for around 1-1.5k and have a lot more fun and not get bored of it

something like a fazer, hornet or bandit

check out the bikes and the insurance too

[Silverspring]

Hey, welcome to the forum! I had the same dilemna recently and decided to go with the DAS. Things I considered:

The insurance for the 600cc is not much different from the 250 Ninja so no difference.

The 600cc is heavier so feel more stable on the road, I've got a 125 which won't be all that much lighter than the 250 and in the wind it is terrible, particularly at high speeds.

If you want to ride out with other people you may feel like a bit left out if you're on a 250 when they are all on 600's plus.

The mod 1 is much easier on the DAS bike, it literally drives itself and is much easier to get up to 50kph for the faster tests. The 125 takes constant adjustments to the clutch, brake, throttle for even a basic slalom, much more challenging!

There is not much difference in the price between the Ninja 250 and the new rider friendly 600.

There are a LOT more choices in the 600 field, much bigger pool of second hand bikes so more reasonable proces. Second hand Ninja 250's can be tough to come by at a reasonable price! That said you could get a 600 restricted but why bother when you don't have to?

I think that's about it, plus most people I spoke to said do DAS where possible!

[Susieque]

I'm taking the CBT out the picture I think,

 

Erm, forgive me if I'm not reading this correctly, but when you say the above, are you meaning that you don't plan to do the CBT??

If so you'll have to think again! CBT stands for Compulsory Basic Training and everyone HAS to do it before being allowed on the road!

[Bogof]

I'm taking the CBT out the picture I think,

 

Erm, forgive me if I'm not reading this correctly, but when you say the above, are you meaning that you don't plan to do the CBT??

If so you'll have to think again! CBT stands for Compulsory Basic Training and everyone HAS to do it before being allowed on the road!

 

I thought that too, I bet he means DAS though, not CBT

[Guest]

I meant that i was taking it out the picture as a stand alone as opposed to doing the whole DAS in one go.

I want to do the DAS.

[OhJay]

I'm reading it the same way as Susie. I think you've slightly misunderstood what all the terms and options are and I get the feeling you're referring to DAS as "a week's intensive training with tests at the end". If you haven't then my apologies and feel free to disregard the rest of this post.

CBT is the first step everyone has to take. You have to show your CBT certificate and your theory certificate at your final tests. It will involve introducing you to the bike, showing you what the controls are, getting you used to riding round the school's site and then a couple of hours out on the road. If your instructor think you're up to a certain standard he will issue you with a CBT certificate. This entitles you to ride up to 125 on your own on L plates and lasts for 2 years. If you book a week long intensive course the first day of it will be the CBT anyway unless you've got one already.

DAS is simply sitting your final test on a bike over a certain power which means you will immediately be able to ride anything, any size, any power. There are three options for what to do for your final test but the only difference is the size of the bike you sit it on, the tests are exactly the same. If you sit it on a bike that can put out at least 35kW (just under 50 hp) then you instantly get a licence to ride whatever you like. If you sit it on a standard 125 you get a licence that means you can ride anything but for two years it can't produce more than 25kW (33hp), after which you're free to ride anything. If you sit it on anything smaller you will be restricted to 125cc and 11kW which doesn't expire. I'm doing DAS but having one lesson a week.

Don't disregard doing your test on the 125. Some people find the 125 easier (my Mrs did hers on the 125, I'm doing DAS on a 500) and I think if you're doing the intensive week doing it on the 125 all week will be cheaper. You'll be restricted for two years but the 250 puts out about what you'd be restricted to anyway so I don't think it'd be any great loss to you. If you do get a 600 then most can easily be restricted down to the 33hp anyway.

If that was teaching granny to suck eggs then my apologies.

[Silverspring]

I meant that i was taking it out the picture as a stand alone as opposed to doing the whole DAS in one go.

I want to do the DAS.

 

Surely the above clarifies the matter? The poster uses the phrase 'stand alone' which surely means he doesn't want to do CBT then wait instead he wants to do CBT as part of DAS...i.ie not stand alone.

Smousers - hope you found some of the advice/opinions useful

[Green]

You could go for the restricted liscence. this will allow you to ride up to 33BHP E.g. Ninja 250 or a restricted 600.

Restricted 600 being the preferred/cheaper option.

1) Do CBT ( compulsary basic training)

2) Buy your leathers and helemt.

3) get a hold of a 125cc bike. eaither buy it cheap and sell it on for the same value or see about renting one.

4) look up youtube and the net for all the advise on Module 1 and module 2 tests.

5) Pass both exams with flying colours.

6) get yourself your Ninja 250 or even better a restricted 600

This is how i done it, the only thing i missed out was i had 2 lessons with an instructor before mod 1 and mod 2 respectivly.

And even then i felt they were comfort lessons i didnt learn anything jsut had my mistakes highlighted and most of the time i knew when i had made them.

All in all becuase you wont be paying for tution only the CBT and tests this is pretty cheap - if you dont lose money over the 125cc bike you passed on.

Hope this makes sense

[Guest]

Thanks everyone for your input,

I don't want to start with smaller bikes (125) or have to endure any restriction. I intend on doing the DAS with CBT at the start.

Are there ways of breaking this up instead of a crash course then? How should i go about it as a newcomer to bikes?

Do i need to do a theory before I book anything or is it included?

Where can I find good advice and revision material?

After some deliberation the CBR600F4i is probably my new choice of bike should I have the money.

Thanks again.

[Bonniebird]

DAS doesn't have to be done as a crash course, you can take lessons over several weeks ifyou prefer but they generally recommend being out at least once a week. Bike schools seem to offer packages such as CBT + X number of lessons including tests. I think they assess your ability at CBT and generally have a reasonable idea of how many lessons it will take and can advise you. Normally you need to book the theory separately. You need to have passed your theory before Mod 1(I think) but you don't need this for the CBT.

You would normally do your CBT on a 125cc and then probably have a couple of lessons on a 125cc before moving onto a bigger bike and the tests.

There are plenty of books on theory and riding skills around and you can try the theory and hazard awareness tests online to practice.

Hope this is up to date - I'm sure people wil correct me if I'm wrong but it's based on people I know doing DAS a few years back.

Best of luck

[Susieque]

It is a common misconception that DAS is an intensive (1/2 week) course with the test at the end of it.

As Bonniebird said, DAS is simply training on a 'big' bike rather than doing it on a 125 & doing a test for a restricted licence, and can be done over however long a period as you choose.

[Nell]

I did my DAS as a series of lessons out once or twice a week. Already had my cbt and my theory so didn't have to worry about that. I did do my car test as 4 days and then test, but I wouldn't have wanted that for the bike.