megawatt Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 You should use the oil specified for your engine! Fully synth is the best, but not all engines can cope with it's slippy qualities. I have used it in old, race engines with modified clutches, but maybe yours needs stiffer springs or more plates to cope with the better tribology of a fully synth. You need to look at your clutch plates to confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk190 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Drain the oil. Remove the clutch and check for wear and damage. Measure the thickness of the friction plates. Check the clutch plates aren't worn or bent or burned. Check the basket for damage. If all is well then reassemble the clutch refit the cover and refill with oil. Simples. If you find the friction plates to be worn or damaged then replace them.If your half competent with tools and take the effort to pay attention to how it came apart then you won't need a haynes manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandy666 Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 the oil specified for the engine, according to the manual, is 10W40.it does not specify synthetic, semi synthetic or anything else.If it has semi synth in it and its slipping, and fully synth is not appropriate for older engines, then what alternatives do I have apart from synthetic and semi synthetic?i will have the clutch out this weekend, but if its fine, and semi is slipping, what should I put in instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 To be honest mate I don't think its the oil.......semi will be OK in that engine IMHO.Does the clutch slip when you open the throttle up when in gear.....or does it just slip when changing gear? I remember you saying that you can let the clutch out when stationary without stalling the bike? To me this is worn friction plates and/or weak clutch springs.....new plates and springs shouldn't set you back more than £80 (I think that's what it cost me for my Sprint)....plus the cost of new clutch cover gasket. A couple of hours work should get it done...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandy666 Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 the clutch slips when I open it up and its in gear.Is is ok up to 4000 revs, then it starts to slip at anything over that, and only when the engine is warm.will phone suzuki in the morning to see what they say, and get the clutch out at the weekend and see how it looks.thanks for the reply mate. seems to be one thing after the other with this bike. hopefull this will be the end of it, but haven't done a cluch before, certainly not on a shaft drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megawatt Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Strip the clutch and undo the centre nut BEFORE disconnecting the driveshaft. You will need to put bike in gear, apply the rear brake and undo the centre nut. Unless you buy or make a special tool. Take pix and post on here as you strip the clutch??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastanglianbiker Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 clutch is the same be it on a shaft drive bike or a chain drive bike and megawatt wont he only need to undo the big nut in the centre if he is removing the basket it wont need to be removed just to change plates will it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megawatt Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Yes you are right mate, but if you are stripping the clutch it's always worth having a look at the bearing and behind the basket at the reaction springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandy666 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 phoned suzuki tech support and a couple of other dealers mechanics.issue is not the oil - 10W40 semi synthetic is the recommended oil for the bike.taking the slave off tonight to check the push rod, and will drain the oil to check out the clutch.everything is pointing towards frictions plates / springs / spacers. the push road appeared fine when i cleaned the slave up on saturday - took it apart, cleaned the piston etc - but will double check just to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk190 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 we're all on the edge of seats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandy666 Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 not the rod.got the plates out - had to go buy a 50mm socket to shift the securing nut. wsteels seem ok - no wear marks or blue ness.friction pads look a bit worn - black residue in the the clutch - must be pad wear.says in the manual the tolerance levels are 46.3mm plus on minus 0.4 mm at5kg - cant see how I would measure that unless i go out and spend another 30 quid on a micro measurement tool.can defo see that some of the pad squares are worn down - so will be changing them bad boys. no springs that i can see in this clutch - read somewhere its a diaphragm type. you can come off the edge of your seats now - will post some pics later on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandy666 Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 friction plates arrived, soaked them in oil for 24 hours and fitted.brought the bike to work this morning and started slipping again, just as bad a before.Regarding the steel clutch spacers - should they be rough (so the friction pads have something to bite) or smooth as a babys bum?they are not blue, they are not bent, but they are very, very smooth smooth.I can see that if the oil was warmed up, this could be the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megawatt Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Finish of steels is usually smooth with small dents in, but it's surface area that's important. I have surface ground a set for my dragbike, to get an extra plate in. Are your compression springs OK. If friction, steels and springs are all OK , it must be the actuation that's at fault. Have you checked the clutch inner and basket for indentations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandy666 Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 yes, the basket is fine. I have absoutely no dents on the plates - smooth as a babys bum - with the remains of some grid pattern.is a diaphragm clutch and the spring plates are fine as well.pretty sure the plates are just worn - i dont have a micrometer so cant measure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandy666 Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 torqued centre nut up to 110 newtons and that seemed to fix it. ballpark is 90 to 110 and was setting it at 100.new plates and friction pads made little difference. also put in new oil.have a micrometer on order to check thickness of old plates / pads so prob have a spare clutch now, tho they were pretty worn.keeping an eye on it but I suppose the clutch diaphragm spring is tired. will be micrometering that as well and will replace if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megawatt Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I'll be visiting Borgy in Windsor on Thursday evening, will you be around late afternoon/teatime? I can pop in and have a look if you want??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandy666 Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 was ok for a day and a half - slipping again.ordering replacement diaphragm springs but I am wondering if the centre nut is slipping under load. should the spring have enough tensile strength to keep it place or would adding a drop of threadlock to the nut thread only fix it?I appreciate the offer megawatt but i'm not sure i'll be back in time. i dont get back til about 7, later if I dont have the bike.has slipped on the way to work, i'm here now, and I dunno how long it'll take me to get back as it may need recovery.the rac love me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk190 Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 if it is the original spring then it may well be past its sell by date. didyou not get a new one as part of the clutch kit? i doubt the centre nut would move if it was torqued to 110nm. thats a lot of force. watch out for the RAC/AA etc, they will only respond to a fault once, if they get called out for the exact same fault which you havent fixed then they can bill you for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandy666 Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 RAC have recovered me 3 times on this - I know I'm pushin my luck.no i bought the friction and spacer plates separate - couldn't find a kit that included the pair of springs i needed - dome shaped.bike has done 18000 miles, was stored for a year and unused for a year, spring could have weakened in that time I guess.new springs ordered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandy666 Posted September 26, 2012 Author Share Posted September 26, 2012 for anyone still following this, it turned out to be the return hole into the master cylinder reservoir was blocked when the hydraulic fluid went off and turned to jelly, plus the master cylinder piston was not returning to rest properly to allow fluid back into the res, plus the friction plates were worn.so a combo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk190 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 glad you got it sorted. you must be relieved to have found the cause?and it looks like i won the sweepstake too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandy666 Posted September 26, 2012 Author Share Posted September 26, 2012 yeah i guess so, tho I haven't had the bill yet. I snapped the big mounting bolt on the slave cylinder (which the mechanic dude was quite impressed by) and i was causing more damage than i was fixin, plus all those parts I didn't need. thought it was time to take it to an expert.some people will say I should have done this first, tho where's the fun in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastanglianbiker Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 glad its all sorted and you will soon have it on the road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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