I don't use the back brake...

[ForestRunner]

I an well aware that this is not a good thing.

I think I am carrying across bad habits from riding mountain bikes.

So, having spent the first few weeks just concentrating on being smooth. Doors anyone have any suggestions on how to develop some better habits.

Have read what I should be doing in terms of various proportions, but how do I start to develop the unconscious movements needed to brake better.

[nikolees]

...but how do I start to develop the unconscious movements needed to brake better.

 

There are no unconscious moves that can make u do anything better on a motorcycle, only worse. Only things that you are trained for.

The better-fastest-easiest way is to attend some kind of school, or at least get some books specifically written to improve your abilities and apply their instructions.

[Joeman]

I an well aware that this is not a good thing.

I think I am carrying across bad habits from riding mountain bikes.

So, having spent the first few weeks just concentrating on being smooth. Doors anyone have any suggestions on how to develop some better habits.

Have read what I should be doing in terms of various proportions, but how do I start to develop the unconscious movements needed to brake better.

 

Only been riding 5 weeks?? biking takes a lifetime to get good at, but you will never master it completely...

You need to consciously use the back brake until its ingrained in your muscle memory.... in time it will become second nature, and will even feel weird if you don’t use it.

practice makes (almost) perfect

[ForestRunner]

Thanks

I will try

I think it is because it is an extra thing to think of. Approaching a roundabout it is easier to front brake and downshift, rather than add in the third thing of rest brake too.

Maybe as gear shifting becomes more ingrained, it will free up a bit of my brain to focus on what my right foot is doing

[fq-craigus]

Braking should use both front and rear brake and when at walkin pace or there abouts come off front brake and stop on rear, as you stop smoother. Problem is if you havnt taken any advanced course ie das then braking has not been covered comprehensivly, for exanple you wont pass your mod 1 only using frony brake

[ForestRunner]

Cheers.

Only riding a 125 on CBT. It's an economical thing.

However, I will inevitably end up doing my test at some point. As just pointed out, I don't want to develop bad habits that might stop me from passing.

I'm off work this week, so haven't been riding. Just clean, oil change and covering with acf50.

Which does mean I've been reading a lot and watching YouTube videos on riding technique.

Next ride, I'll make it my focus to practice.

[Alice-In-Sunderland]

Hmm, I use more back brake than front. Unless something unexpected happens.

[Mr Fro]

Braking should use both front and rear brake and when at walkin pace or there abouts come off front brake and stop on rear, as you stop smoother.

 

Sounds about right. You should use a hefty bias to the front during normal riding as this will give you better stopping power. My knowledge of the new testing etc is hazy but in the olden days you would been failed if you didn't use the rear at all.

Just get out and do a bit of riding. Slow speed stuff i.e. in and out of cones type thing is good for learning how to use the back brake, clutch, etc effectively.

For me, the right foot starts braking as the left foot is thinking about going down when I come to a halt.

[Joeman]

Hmm, I use more back brake than front. Unless something unexpected happens.

well stop it!! you are doing it wrong...

[Alice-In-Sunderland]

Hmm, I use more back brake than front. Unless something unexpected happens.

well stop it!! you are doing it wrong...

 

Never understood this, why am I doing it wrong? If I can anticipate when I need to stop it gives for a much smoother stop IMO. Does it put more strain on engine components or something?

[klingelton]

There's hardly any stopping power on the rear, this is especially true on larger machines. I've heard the rear brake called a "control brake" in the past. That's not a bad description. Point is, you should be getting used to applying different levels of bias to your different anchors for different conditions and speeds and course changes.

Example: you should do all your braking coming into a corner. however if you've over cooked it, you can apply a little rear to slow the bike. Don't expect things to be drastic, but it could be the difference between seeing the other side of a hedge and not. alternatively, you do it wrong - over cook it - lock up your rear and your back end washes out.

anyway - get into the habit of doing your braking before the turn. In normal conditions, your bias should be around 80% front, 20% rear. As been spoken about anything below walking pace should be done nearly entirely on the rear. you can tickle the front if you need to (i.e. it's not exclusively), however a motorcycle articulates at the front, you've seen a lorry jack knife, a bike will do the same! I've seen learners using their front brakes in traffic situations, and it looks snatchy and not smooth.

It's quite refreshing not to have a counter steering or nodding thread!

[Mr Fro]

In normal conditions, your bias should be around 80% front, 20% rear.

 

I heard a bloke down the pub say you should always ise 70:30...

[ForestRunner]

Interesting thoughts all.

Currently I am looking to brake before corners.

Front brake on a bike seems more natural to me as the braking force pushes the front wheel into the ground as the suspension compresses. On dirt, on a mountain bike, this allows the knobbies to bite and find grip. I would also pick the back end up with my feet to induce a drift and pull the back end around in a switchback. If it was really tight I would pivot on the front wheel. Zero rear brake.

Indeed on a fixed wheel pushbike I would often ride brakeless. The equivalent of engine braking only.

I do not want to induce a slide on a motorbike So braking is as smooth and early as possible.

I think that this plus the fact that there is a disc on the front, which in part of my brain seems clearly superior, is the reason for what I do.

It is clear there is some retraining of the brain and body needed

[klingelton]

Interesting thoughts all.

Currently I am looking to brake before corners.

Front brake on a bike seems more natural to me as the braking force pushes the front wheel into the ground as the suspension compresses. On dirt, on a mountain bike, this allows the knobbies to bite and find grip. I would also pick the back end up with my feet to induce a drift and pull the back end around in a switchback. If it was really tight I would pivot on the front wheel. Zero rear brake.

Indeed on a fixed wheel pushbike I would often ride brakeless. The equivalent of engine braking only.

I do not want to induce a slide on a motorbike So braking is as smooth and early as possible.

I think that this plus the fact that there is a disc on the front, which in part of my brain seems clearly superior, is the reason for what I do.

It is clear there is some retraining of the brain and body needed

 

effectively the compression on the front brake into the tarmac is what facilitates your braking. and true, discs on the front are far more effective than if you're unfortunate enough to have drums on the rear. that said. i have discs on the back and they do very little!

[klingelton]

In normal conditions, your bias should be around 80% front, 20% rear.

 

I heard a bloke down the pub say you should always ise 70:30...

 

I know the same bloke down the pub that claims never to use his rear brake. Never seen him on his bike though.

[OhJay]

Front brake on a bike seems more natural to me as the braking force pushes the front wheel into the ground as the suspension compresses.

 

Correct, absolutely spot on. A lot more braking force on the front which is why we're then told to use ~70% front. Weight goes off the rear so you get less braking ability on the rear and can lock it up easier (which is a fail if you do that on mod 1, for information )

Also comes to the point on emergency braking you should apply progressively to give the suspension the chance to settle the weight and the tire to grip rather than grab a handful and put more braking force through the tire than the grip is ready to handle.

With mountain bike experience you'll have most of this down already

 

I heard a bloke down the pub say you should always ise 70:30...

 

The bias you're taught in lessons for your test is 50:50 in the wet

[ForestRunner]

I think I am going to find some quiet forest roads and try a few things out next week.

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion:

A - I really need to learn how to use the back brake.

B - The proportions and timings are different for bikes and conditions.

C - There are riders of many different schools of thought.

D - There as many men in pubs with opinions as the answers you'd get from two lawyers.

Thanks all.

More opinions and thoughts the better.

[techno]

In normal conditions, your bias should be around 80% front, 20% rear.

 

I heard a bloke down the pub say you should always ise 70:30...

 

I know the same bloke down the pub that claims never to use his rear brake. Never seen him on his bike though.

 

That's kind of me, yes all this 50/50 70/30 is bull with differing discs calipers etc you'll never know, but I don't use my back brake, I know others that don't other than as s handbrake, I only actually use it on the move to clean up the disc so it won't fail the mot.

Yes I know you shouldn't tell noobs that they shouldn't use it but as you gain experience you will learn what works for you.

I thought before remove my rear brake I could go on a rideout remove the front I am not going anywhere.

[Joeman]

I think I am going to find some quiet forest roads and try a few things out next week.

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion:

A - I really need to learn how to use the back brake.

B - The proportions and timings are different for bikes and conditions.

C - There are riders of many different schools of thought.

D - There as many men in pubs with opinions as the answers you'd get from two lawyers.

Thanks all.

More opinions and thoughts the better.

 

could always just buy a bike with linked brakes

[Mr Fro]

In normal conditions, your bias should be around 80% front, 20% rear.

 

I heard a bloke down the pub say you should always ise 70:30...

 

I know the same bloke down the pub that claims never to use his rear brake. Never seen him on his bike though.

The guy with the 200mph CB500?

[ForestRunner]

could always just buy a bike with linked brakes

Yeah. That will go down well with the missus Haven't had this one a month yet lol

[klingelton]

I heard a bloke down the pub say you should always ise 70:30...

 

I know the same bloke down the pub that claims never to use his rear brake. Never seen him on his bike though.

The guy with the 200mph CB500?

 

That's his son. His dad has the r1 as is quicker than guy Martin around the tt.

[hadster]

I use the rear brake, it simply stabilises the bike in my opinion, low speeds, high speeds whatever, i dont stand on it, it simply aids to keep the bike pointing where you want it too.

[BikerMooFromMars]

I was the same, never ever used it, but been trying to use it more recently since doing practice for mod 1 and 2...esp when I went for a u turn and headed toward a ditch which had the instructor laughing - said I shoulda steadied myself with my back brake. Using it occasionally in slow speed stuff (though most traffic situations I love the ole clutch control!)...but I largely use it in a more emergency-brake-ish situations now. Or, say, thinking I can get through some lights and the amber shows and it's like "waaah, front brake....aaaaand a bit of back. Awesome,no one noticed I was being a twat!"

[rennie]

This is not the first time we've discussed this.

Alice you're doing it wrong!

The rest of it is a bit grey!

I almost never used the rear brake on the blade,

I use it more often on the Fazer, I use it more often

still if carrying a pillion.

most of the weight and forces transfer to the front when

slowing down so that is where most of the braking should be.

The back brake is just for a bit of extra control or stability.