murder/manslaughter/self defence.

[Ali in Austria]

So he aquires a shotgun and modifies it in such away it only has one real use. He combines it with some weighty ammunition.

He then does what has been reported.

Darn lucky not to have been convicted of murder.

[Mr Fro]

...people who cant control their temper are the wrong people to have guns in the house.

True but the one that he used was one that he "found in a skip at work", he would have had it regardless...

The fact that he took it home and doctored it up so that it would be more easily concealable makes me raise my eyebrow. Add to that the probability that it was hidden when the firearms cert guys came to inspect his cupboard...

Surely the only reason for adapting a sawn-off would be to take it out and about. Gives more weight to the prosecution as it ticks all three boxes as an offensive weapon - Made, adapted and intended for the use of causing physical harm.

[cockercas]

That is his downfall mr fro.

He used a sawn off. No arguments about that.

[Stu]

lets remember there is 3 sides to a story

thats the dead guys families side your mates side and the truth and the latter no one will ever know

[Fozzie]

Bingo

Juries have to work with what they know factually. And work on the greatest likelihood.

Same applies when 2 mates fall out, or a break up, or legal disputes.

One or both sides will have an agenda, in this case one to get the guy locked up, and the other potentially being trying to get off without charge.

Did I read he claimed to find a sawn off shotgun in a skip!?! Im a bit suspect of that, mainly as he kept it, and secondly was the first one he went for in the heat of the moment, and it was loaded, or had ammo nearby... Did he find the ammo in the skip?

[cockercas]

No he held the 'ammo' legally. Anyone can buy shotgun ammo.

[Stu]

No he held the 'ammo' legally. Anyone can buy shotgun ammo.

 

I think you will find you have to show your licence to get ammo

well a decent shop will only sell you it if you provide your licence and you also have to sign for it

you are only allowed to store/buy a certain amount of rounds at a time

I know as two of my brothers have their firearms licence and one of them also has a shotgun

each time they buy ammo it has to be logged and they are only allowed to purchase the amount the licence entitles them to

[Fozzie]

No he held the 'ammo' legally. Anyone can buy shotgun ammo.

 

With a firearms licence as Stu says yeah.

Just seems really fortunate he "finds" a gun that takes the same ammo, then keeps it without telling anybody.

He already had a shotgun, he may as well have just handed that one into the rozzers.

[cockercas]

Your both right about the shop and a licence.

But, anyone can go to a clayground and buy cartridges, theres a loop hole to allow you to buy them to use on there ground.

And unlike a firearms ammunition shotgun cartridges arnt recorded.

So theres nothing stoping you putting a few in you pocket. You dont need a shotgun licence to hold shotgun cartridges.

Granted most clay grounds ask for a licence bit ive shot a few that havent.

[cockercas]

No he held the 'ammo' legall Anyone can buy shotgun ammo.

 

I think you will find you have to show your licence to get ammo

well a decent shop will only sell you it if you provide your licence and you also have to sign for it

you are only allowed to store/buy a certain amount of rounds at a time

I know as two of my brothers have their firearms licence and one of them also has a shotgun

each time they buy ammo it has to be logged and they are only allowed to purchase the amount the licence entitles them to

Firearms licence is diffrent to shotgun licence.

Firearms ammuntion need to be recorded on your licence, but only if its expanding ammo.

Expanding ammo can only be borght in amounts set by the police. Non expanding you can buy as much as you like.

Firearms ammo has to be stored in a seprate safe to the guns.

Theres no signing for ammo. But its recorded on your licence if its expanding ammo.

Shotgun cartridges are diffrent.

Need a licence to buy from the shop. Usually.

No record of shotgun cartridges are kept.

Store them were ever you like. No need to be securely stored.

No limits on the amount of shotgun cartridges either.

I was once in the shop and a bloke borght 14,000 in one go.

I hold both fac&sgc and have done since i was 14.

[Fozzie]

Well there's some education...

Buying ammo is WAY too relaxed, and don't piss you off

[cockercas]

It is and it isnt.

The odd time a licence holder shoots someone they had acsess to it anyway.

And the people who dont have a licence can get hold of it ileagly.

Anyone can get a shotgun licence (as long as your not a phrohibtid person), getting a fitearms licence ismore difficult .

[Guest]

A gun owner is far more likely to use it on himself than on someone else. on average 41 people die per year as a result of firearms. suicide by firearms is on average 121 per year.

I would imagine the vast majority of deaths is due to illegally held firearms.

Suicide.. their own property or someone elses they have access to.

So, you have very little to worry about with someone who owns a legal firearm.

btw.. in the good ole USA suicide by gun is astronomical.. they do everything bigger, the equivalent of 37 full jumbo jets crashing every year. 17,551 on average.

killings by gun - roughly double that.

[cockercas]

Thats it. We have some of the best gun laws in tge world. The odd time a legal gun owner gose on s shooting spree is because somethings 'snaped' in his head, the last ones been bird and the other taxi driver, and you cant make laws on the actions of one man.

[Ali in Austria]

What did he have No 4 Shot for? No good for clays or even Pigeon Rabbit and Pheasant? Culling foxes may be. Illegal to shoot Deer with even if he had permission. It's not as if he found a Sawn Off, he converted a weapon he allegedly found.

Sawn Off and No 4 Shot = Someone is likely to die or get seriously injured.

[cockercas]

You have never shot high pheasants then.

Or hares or geese or duck.

No4 is a good shot size.

[RantMachine]

You have never shot high peasants then.

 

Fixed that for you

[Ali in Austria]

I have shot high pheasant but not geese or duck admittedly (regulars often use a larger calibre or punt gun). He certainly doesn't sound the type of guy that has access to wetland shooting but I guess I am being pre judgmental. I was Classified in A Class back in the day for Clays and shot for an International Team. Never quite made it to AA.

[cockercas]

Pete had alot of land to shoot. He became a family freind through my granddad who was a game keeper.

i couldnt imagine shooting high birds without no4, driven pheasnts in scotland are high, 5s just dont have the energy.

Im pretty good at clays. But i find them abit boring.

Nothing better then been in a ditch full of water at day break waiting for the ducks to flight.

[Guest]

nothing worse in my view.. I simply can't understand how anyone gets any kind of pleasure from slaughtering wildlife. particularly hares. which are 'at risk' here in the UK and locally extinct in many areas they used to be common.

its not just the shooting that sickens me.. its the other things that follow. gamekeepers slaughtering raptors with poison. awful.

[cockercas]

Hears are plenty round here.

Mainly because i shoot alot of foxes.

And because i shoot alot of foxes the english partridge are slowly building in numbers.

Its not like it used to be. Rouge game keepers are few and far between. Without game keepers the countryside wouldnt be what it is.

I dont really get enjoyment out of it anymore.

I dont shoot game anymore. Mainly just foxes and deer and thats only to keep them in good health.

The enjoyment comes from spending time with freinds and my dad, outside in the fresh air.

I see stuff most people never see.

And i get truly free range food food at the end.

Plus i get to spend time with freinds and family

If you eat chicken you have no argument.

Your chicken has had a crap life, born to die.

A pheasant on the otherhand roams free, eats when and what it likes, mates and has a chance of living depending on how good the guns are.

[Bogof]

What would you do if you had been stabbed in the neck and thorght you was going to die?

 

I'd seek medical attention as a first priority. Shotguns don't give first aid so I'd give that a miss at least till I felt a little better.

[Who else but Quagmire]

I dont shoot game anymore. Mainly just foxes and deer and thats only to keep them in good health.

 

I do know what you're on about really...

[hadster]

Have to agree with the pull up a chair and aim it at the door after calling police comment, tell the police your going to shoot them, they will be there in 7 minutes or less. If they do get in, Shoot them

[cockercas]

I dont shoot game anymore. Mainly just foxes and deer and thats only to keep them in good health.

 

I do know what you're on about really...

 

Deer need management as they have no natural predators.

Missed the small print lol.