Government made motorcycling more dangerous for young people

[Guest]

The threads in this section reminded me that I have a major issue with the new licensing laws.

The way it was before, you could ride a 50cc for a year at 16, then at 17 get a 125 and start your training. When you passed you were allowed...

1. A 33bhp at the rear wheel bike, which IMO is safer than a 125, more fun, and actually useful as a regional, national or international form of transport, it's not just something to get you around town. An XT600E has 43bhp at the crank and 33bhp at the rear wheel and people ride round the world on them.

2. Allowed to use motorways, again useful.

3. Allowed to carry a pillion, also useful.

17 year olds had an incentive to go and get trained, and pass thier test, as soon as they could. A 33bhp bike is something they wanted, and were prepared spend money on. Proper independance and freedom.

Now the new rules say they are stuck on a 125 until they are 19. There's not much point worrying about pillions and motorways, as a 125 is dangerous on a motorway and not great at carrying pillions either. The only real advantage, you get rid of the L plates, so what, is that worth spending all that money for?

So why would a 17 year old, for whom money is always very tight anyway, bother getting training and taking a test?

They are riding on the road for 2 or 3 years, on a bike with limited capabilities which is certain situations makes it unsafe, with nothing except a CBT (cones in a car park, plus a quick ride down the road) for training, and no intention of getting trained or taking a test until they are 19.

Well done to the policy makers, their new safety legislation, made it more dangerous.

[Via]

100% agree... I'm slightly older but technically dangerous for me as well with new laws

I wanted to do progressive access as I don't trust myself to not buy something stupidly fast so being restricted for two years would have been perfect. Now it does not make financial sense to do this as I would need to keep doing tests etc... So only financially sensible route is direct access

[soll]

ok i have a full licence now, but got a link to the new laws as my son is looking into ti

[Westbeef]

I agree completely, I had a moped at 16 and sacked off the 125 as the route to a proper bike was too costly! Now I'm 24 I've jumped straight back into it as I can do a DAS, but the route to your full license is very off putting for young riders.

[Throttled]

I was chatting to a 23 year old who told me that few 17 year olds are getting into bikes because of the rules.

[Joeman]

I was chatting to a 23 year old who told me that few 17 year olds are getting into bikes because of the rules.

 

And that's likely the government's intention. They don't want motorcyclists on the roads.

[bonio]

And that's likely the government's intention. They don't want motorcyclists on the roads.

Spot on.

They're committed to getting road accident rates down. They have two policies I can see: reduce speed limits on twisty roads / roads with junctions, and make it harder to get on a motorcycle for the first time.

[EthanKing]

Here in Ireland you do a theory test and an initial basic training course and your age decides your restrictions. Under 18s are limited to a 125cc w/11kw, 18-24s are 35kw and 24+ have no restrictions.

Sent from my G7-L01 using Tapatalk

[Guest]

Here in Ireland you do a theory test and an initial basic training course and your age decides your restrictions. Under 18s are limited to a 125cc w/11kw, 18-24s are 35kw and 24+ have no restrictions.

Sent from my G7-L01 using Tapatalk

 

Lots of people blame the EU, but the EU part of it was in the form of a directive, not a regulation, so countries can choose how they want to implement it, if at all. The UK being the nanny state that it is, went over the top. The EU directive didnt recommend the three tests we have to do.

[bonio]

To be fair, I think the problem is with probably shared more evenly between the government and the EU.

For example, the EU driving directive stipulates testing at least two slow speed manoeuvres, including negotiating a slalom. The UK government said to themselves that they couldn't possibly test that on the open road, and so built a whole series of test centres, each with acres of smooth tarmac, all dedicated to testing according to the EU directive. The Irish government, by contrast, said to themselves that of course everyone must end up doing some kind of slalomy type manoeuvre when they're out on their test and as long they don't fall off, they must have done it pretty well. So the Irish motorcycle test is a single test, all of it is carried out on the road, and all you have to do is show you can control the bike at slow speed.

Which is right? Well, given no other information, it would be hard to see how on earth the Irish government's test meets the EU driving directive. But it sure does make a lot more sense out of it than the UK government's approach.

But the root of the problem lies with the EU, who preside over a system where it's possible to come with up with an interpretation of the directive that is so wide of the mark that was written down, and yet which is still considered to meet its standards.

[Guest]

But the root of the problem lies with the EU, who preside over a system where it's possible to come with up with an interpretation of the directive that is so wide of the mark that was written down, and yet which is still considered to meet its standards.

 

This is what directives are:

 

A directive is a legal act of the European Union, which requires member states to achieve a particular result without dictating the means of achieving that result.

Directives normally leave member states with a certain amount of leeway as to the exact rules to be adopted.

 

So, the way I read that is.. the EU demands a particular result. and dont really care what individual countries do so long as that result is achieved. and can to an extent pick and choose so long as the final result isn't too different... or altered to the point it makes the directive and its goals meaningless.

this seems to me to be sensible.. directives arent written in stone. so ireland (which is broke) can do it a cheap way... whereas we, who appear to be dripping in money can do it by the letter and sod the expense.

I would love to know 2 things. 1. how Germany did it. and 2. how Italy did it.

Those two countries in particular as I reckon they have the highest number of bikers.. thats a purely subjective assumption based on what Ive seen. and have fairly comparable populations. (unlike Eire) and so would, i reckon have similar.. or higher numbers of 'new' bikers learning.

[fq-craigus]

So lets leave the eu and make bike licences common sense at last

[Guest]

So lets leave the eu and make bike licences common sense at last

 

Theres a topic elsewhere on the forum all about that. if we leave then it'll be interesting to see what happens..

my guess is: nothing whatsoever will change.

BTW.. Ive found out how the germans do it.. though this predates any more recent changes in the past few years.

our equivalent of an 'all in one' from non rider to test pass. the hours of each part are the minimum, required by law.. you can pay for extra.

Theory class.

6 hours basics on the bike

5 hours on normal roads - urban and rural.

4 hours on Motorway

3 hours riding after sunset.

mandatory eyesight test.

theory exam

riding exam

One very interesting difference.. in germany the examiner.. the person who says 'congrats - you've passed' is purely an observer. for the on road riding test you go out with your trainer.. the person youve worked with throughout and follow his instructions. the examiner' follows and watches and has no input.

[bonio]

I completely agree that the German and Irish approach to motorbike is more desirable than ours. No argument on that. But there is something that I still don't get...

About the motorbike test, the EU directive says

6.2. Special manoeuvres to be tested with a bearing on road safety

6.2.3.

At least two manoeuvres to be executed at slow speed, including a slalom;

 

And the dictionary says

slalom

noun

any winding or zigzag course marked by obstacles or barriers, as one in which automobiles are tested for maneuverability or drivers for reaction time.

 

Given this, I honestly don't understand how Germany and Ireland are thought to achieve this particular result in their version of the test.

[Guest]

The germans are trained to do a slalom. fortunately the german for slalom is slalom.

(Gefahrenbremsung, 2 Ausweichhaken, Slalom, Schritttempo, Kreis)

as are the Irish.. this from a random dublin school.

 

Module 2

Module 2 focuses on practical skills and will take place solely in the off-road training area. It will be the first time in the training programme that you will ride your motorcycle. This module will take at least five hours to complete and has 10 objectives:

1. Moving off and stopping

2. Use of brakes

3. Use of gears

4. Slow riding

5. Figure of eight

6. U-turn

7. Slalom

8. Rear observation and mirrors

9. Turning left and right

10. Emergency adjustment of speed

[bonio]

Ooh. Then it looks as if I was wrong.