This thread has actually got me reaching for the Dawkins on my bookshelves... time to dip into them again, I think As an aside, my original point was probably lost in translation, but I was watching a 60 Minutes interview with Ricky Gervais last night, and he actually said precisely what I had meant to, i.e. that he reserves the right to say "what the f*ck" he wants, but that it's always a calculated decision as to when and where he does so. He used the example of not running into a church to tell the congregation that they're a bunch of twats; conversely, in his home, if you don't like what he say's then you're welcome to leave. Mark, I think that there's a time and a place to express opinions, that's all. Our thinking is probably more aligned than it might have appeared, though. Right, back to photography, then...